Friday, June 26, 2009

John Mauldin #128

This week Bruce is joined once again by John Mauldin from Millennium Wave Investments. John is a New York Times Best Seller and is writer of the highly acclaimed “Thought from the Frontline” e-newsletter.

There was a time when we thought that making loans to anyone that can buy a property was the wisest thing. Bruce asks John if we have discovered this to be untrue. John says that the answer is clearly yes, but making loans to people who can pay them back is still not a bad investment. What we began to do was use a model to predict who could pay off a loan and who could not. These models made us think that we did not need to be as careful about how we lent money. These models assume what is known as a bell curve, but in the real world there is no such thing as a bell curve. In the real world, there is a thing that we call “fat tail.” This means that when you get down to approaching zero, the curve starts going back up at the end. Mathematicians say that this should only happen every 10,000 years, but this seems to happen once every 4 years. You cannot model this sort of phenomenon and it is arrogant to think that you can. Yet we trained two generations of economists and MBAs in such things. Then we unleashed them on investment advisory firms and brokers, and these economists created these models saying, “If we start here, and save this much money, then your stock market investment will grow over time.” People believed them because they were smart people, but they were smart people using bad theories. Some of these theories won Nobel prizes.

One of the books that John recommends reading is “The Black Swan”, which claims that it is arrogant to think that anyone could figure out these models so easily. In the book he says that “A black swan event is retrospectively obvious.” Looking back, we could have seen that loaning money to people who did not have to prove much would have a bad ending. When John first started looking at collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) during the middle of 2006, he discovered that people were taking the worst part of a mortgage backed security (the bottom five percent) and grouping them together, which created a brand new security. They would then create models for rating companies who would then take that bottom five percent and call 70 percent of it AAA. When John discovered this he thought, “All you need to have is a five to ten percent drop in prices to make everything go down to zero.” You would think that if people from different areas of the United States could figure this out then the people actively investing and lending would be able to figure this out even quicker. Not only did they not figure out the problem they were creating, but they actually bought some of the garbage they were creating and they put it into their banks. This is why companies like Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan, and Citi with really bad paper. `

Bruce asks John what the current mood is towards the U.S. and capitalism in general. John thinks that it is more skeptical, and rightly so. A lot of the third world thought of America as this shining city on a hill, but they also thought we were rather arrogant because we told them how they should run their banks. We were not doing the things that we told other people to do. The epicenters for bonds sales were located in California, Nevada, and Florida but we sold all our bonds to Europe and Asia. This is going to come out within the next 6 months to a year. They are going to have write down far more money than they currently are. European banks are in far worse shape than American banks.

Bruce asks if this is because they have lent to emerging countries, or because they have invested in mortgage backed securities. John thinks that both of these options have created problems and other things as well. Western European banks took a huge chunk of Eastern European debt. Austrian banks lent more than the entire Austrian GDP, so the Austrian government could not rescue the Austrian banks if they wanted to. A lot of European banks also lent money to Asia. The UK is in better shape because they have their own currency. Businesses are not making as much money. Ireland is deflating by about four percent every year. There are some serious problems going around the world.

Bruce asks if there is any other time comparable to this downturn. John says we’ve never gone through anything like this worldwide. John says that world trade is down 10 percent and equipment orders in Japan are down 80 percent. Japan is doing their best to destroy their currency, but they are having trouble doing it, because if their currency rises then their products will be more expensive.

In California, there are currently about 240,000 properties in some stage of foreclosure. Today, there is a new moratorium. Bruce asks John how he feels about moratoriums. John thinks that moratoriums are just delaying the inevitable. It is not unusual for lenders to have a loan balance worth $200,000 dollars more than what a house is worth. Fitch recently said that 50 percent of people who bought their home after 2005 are under water on their mortgage payments. They are also estimating that home values will go down another 12.5 percent. This is a very difficult environment. Bruce says this says something about American character.

The problem is that if prices continue to decline and unemployment continues to go up, then you are going to have a much bigger problem. John estimates that unemployment will rise another one percent. It is going to be difficult to entice businesses in Southern California to hire people. If you compare taxes between California and Texas, it makes sense that people would want to move out of California. It is hard to attract people to your state when you are raising taxes. The states that have the highest taxes are losing the most population. John says that Florida was hit harder than California but Florida will come back faster than California because they have a low tax environment and people want to go there to retire.

In one of John’s news articles, he discussed Gary Schilling’s thoughts on solving housing problems. Gary’s idea revolved around creating demand. Gary said that about 800,000 people come into America every year. For the next two years, if these immigrants can buy a home and maintain their lives, then they could get a green card. Within a year, all the vacant homes on the market would be taken. They would also have to live in the home they are buying in order to receive the green card. There are countries such as Canada and Australia who do this. They are searching for immigrants with education and money to come into their country. One of the biggest competitions in the world is to attract young, educated workers. There are only two ways that you can make an economy grow: you can either increase the number of workers or you can increase their productivity. We’ve got a boomer generation who is trying to retire, so we need to be bringing in more educated middle class entrepreneurs. John thinks that we need to have a more welcoming immigration policy.

Bruce says that investors, who are having difficulty getting financing, are having trouble right now. There are a lot of properties in bad condition that investors could fix and make valuable but they cannot get the money to do the job. We have destroyed 40 to 50 percent of the financers for housing construction and development. We destroyed the shadow banking system which helped special investments. They are gone and they are never coming back, so now we need to make new structured security vehicles that investors will feel confident in. This is something that is going to take some time to develop, but John thinks that in 10 years we will be much happier.

For more information on John, you can visit

John Mauldin is a prolific author, recognized financial expert, and editor of the popular Thoughts from the Frontline e-letter which goes to over 1,500,000 readers weekly. His critically acclaimed new book, Just One Thing and previous Best Seller Bull’s Eye Investing, Targeting Real Returns in a Smoke and Mirrors Market cuts though the fog of information and gives concrete advice for structuring absolute return portfolios. John is primarily involved in private money management, financial services, and investments and research. His next series of books involves the largest millionaire study done in over 15 years with personal interviews with hundreds of affluent individuals. Investors can visit his website at or get his free weekly e-letter by sending a request to

Join us next week as we launch I Survived Real Estate 2009!

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Friday, June 19, 2009

John Mauldin #127

This week Bruce is joined by John Mauldin from Millennium Wave Investments. John is a New York Times best seller author, and he is the writer of “Thought from the Front Line e-letter”, which goes out to 1.5 million readers every week. He is frequently interviewed on TV shows around the world.

Bruce begins by asking John what his company does, and who his typical client is. John helps investors find investment managers that will work best for them.

John has a new series of books called “Eavesdropping on Millionaires.” Bruce asks John what has surprised him most about wealthy individuals. John says that he was surprised by how many of them felt a need to be in the market, and how many of them have rode the market all the way to the bottom. They did not have a sense of preservation. They did not understand they had won the race, and that they could stop running. They could have lived a comfortable lifestyle, but they continued to invest, and they have lost a large amount of their net worth. This is unlike anything we’ve ever seen. From here we are creating a new “normal.” This time it really is different. We’re watching a new generation become frugal. Savings rates are increasing from 0% to 5%.

Bruce asked John if it is more painful to go backwards financially then to have never been there before. John thinks that it is. John found some stats from David Rosenberg showing that people 55 years and over have seen an increase in employment. John says that people need to be careful when they are listening to people who are anticipating what will happen in the financial future based on what has happened in the past because the underlying forces in our current market are much different than they were before. Statistics also say that the boomer generation has not accumulated any wealth for 12 to 15 years.

Bruce asked John if most people become millionaires because of earning power or investments. John says that everyone has their own path. A large number of people who become financially successful are good savers. Many of them save 20 percent of their earnings. Most lived a frugal lifestyle and saved diligently. The number of people who made money investing is not as big as you would think. John’s company has surveyed 17,000 people, and they have found that it is harder to become a millionaire through investing than it seems.

Ludwig von Mises once said, “It may sometimes be expedient for a man to heat the stove with his furniture. But he should not delude himself by believing that he has discovered a wonderful new method of heating his premises.” When Bruce looks at how we are solving the crisis that started in 2008, he wonders if we are hurting our future by what we are doing. John thinks that in the short term, the answer is “no” but people disagree with him.

The problem we have started 15 years ago when we started leveraging ourselves and we started selling securitized mortgages that were not going to be paid. We have a certain amount of deleveraging pain that we are going to have to go through in order to get through this problem. We can do it in one year or ten years. One year means 25 percent unemployment and breadline depression. If we work through this problem over 10 years then we will experience slow growth, 10 percent unemployment, and difficulty in recovering the stock market.

John would rather take the longer route. John thinks that the Fed did the right thing by stepping in and putting liquidity into the market. People associate credit with cash which it is not. The level of credit that the world is using is imploding. There is far less credit to finance our future. The Fed can print money right now without creating too much future inflation. Someday they will have to stop and they will.

John thinks that the stimulus package idea was not a bad idea, but the way that we have created it and used it is wrong. We used the stimulus package to finance political objectives rather than actually doing things to stimulate the economy. We are borrowing money that our grandchildren will have to pay instead of building infrastructure they can enjoy.

We are planning on going into debt $1 trillion dollars per year for the next ten years but you cannot finance that much money that quickly; there are not enough takers. We were running a $700 billion dollar trade deficit, but that money came back and was invested in some sort of debt. That allowed us to create a large deficit, but now we only have $300 billion dollars worth of trade debt, which means that we have to go out and find $1.7 trillion dollars of money to buy more bonds. John thinks that we will probably raise taxes.

John says we could suspend all these new projects like healthcare like Republicans but there’s no chance that will happen. If this were the path, the dollar would become stringer but we’d still have to work through deleveraging and the housing problem. But, it doesn’t destroy the dollar. John feels the current administration’s solutions will only work for so long. The bond market will implode eventually if this keeps up and it’s an ugly scenario. If there are a enough democrats that come along that agree that the huge deficits aren’t good, taxes will roll out to keep paying for these programs. As long as the deficit is growing as fast as the nominal GDP.

John thinks out of these scenarios the last solution will result.

Bruce asks John if he thinks that we have seen the bottom of the housing market. John does not think we have. He thinks that housing problems will continue through 2010. We have more foreclosures coming. If you are at the point where you would like to buy a house, this is a great time to do so.

More coming next week. Visit or John at

John is a Fort Worth, Texas businessman, now living in Uptown Dallas, and the father of seven children, ranging from ages 13 through 30, five of whom are adopted.

He was Chief Executive Officer of the American Bureau of Economic Research, Inc., a publisher of newsletters and books on various investment topics, from 1982 to 1987. He was one of the founders of Adopting Children Together Inc., the largest adoption support group in Texas. He currently serves on the board of directors of The International Reconciliation Coalition and the International Children’s Relief Fund. He is also a member of the Knights of Malta, and has served on the Executive Committee of the Republican Party of Texas.

He is a frequent contributor to numerous publications, and guest on TV and radio shows as well as quoted widely in the press.

John is the President of Millennium Wave Advisors, LLC (MWA) which is an investment advisory firm registered in multiple states. John Mauldin is President of Millennium Wave Securities, LLC a FINRA registered broker-dealer. MWS is also a Commodity Pool Operator (CPO) and a Commodity Trading Advisor (CTA) registered with the CFTC, as well as an Introducing Broker (IB).

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Friday, June 12, 2009

Shelley Kaye of REOMAC #126

This week Bruce is joined once again by Shelley Kaye, the president of REOMAC. She also works with InSource Financial Services where she handles bulk sale purchases.

Bruce first asks Shelley if lenders generally fix the properties when they sell them. Shelley says that it depends on the market and the lender but usually fixes her properties. She does not want to bring the prices of a neighborhood down; she wants to enhance a neighborhood. She knows a large number of other agents who work with lenders to fix properties and they make a lot of profit that way. When you support the value of a neighborhood, you also enable some people to get a refi instead of losing a property. Everybody wins when people fix properties.

Bruce asks Shelley how REO agents feel about auction companies. For the most part, the auction companies and agents are working in a partnership, and in many cases, the agents are still earning a commission. In the past, if a property went to an auctioneer then an agent would not be paid. The agents do open houses for auction companies, and they bring in buyers. In the 1990s, the agents didn’t make a commission so this time is much better. The auction company couldn’t function as successfully if it weren’t for the agents who are also bringing the buyers.

Bruce asks Shelley how REO agents feel about investors. Most good REO agents have a pool of investors that they work with. The problem that agents have is determining who is an investor and who is not. Real investors are easier to work with because they understand the market place, and they are not unrealistic about property values. Agents like working with investors because they know what they want and they understand how lenders do business. Most investors will close quickly. One of the dilemmas that agents have with wannabe investors is that they do not check up on their properties, they do not understand what it takes to buy an REO from a lender, and they do not understand what they are planning to do with a property. Investors must need to know what they are doing and they must do their homework.

In today’s market, an investor needs to be able to look at a property and quickly determine the repair cost and the appraisal to be competitive, because many properties have multiple offers. They must understand so many facets of the business from how much prices are declining to how much the house will rent for.

Bruce asks Shelley if she thinks that short sales will be more attractive to the lenders now than they were in the past. Shelley thinks that they will be more attracted to short sales, because there is a lot of cost in processing a foreclosure. The biggest problem she sees with this is that loss mitigators are not experienced enough to understand what is occurring in the market place. Time is their biggest enemy.

Bruce asks if loss mitgators, asset managers, and ever really talk before something goes to trustee sale. When Shelley worked at Option 1, she would talk to the loss mitigation department. They had formulas to determine how much they would lose in specific deals. Unfortunately, many of the people who work with loss mitigation do not understand the market.

Bruce says The Norris Group has noticed a big change in opening bids at the trustee sales. They are making more sense. Bruce asks if people often communicate with REO agents, prior to trustee sales, to determine accurate prices before the trustee sale. Shelley says that lenders are always getting a broker price opinion. The biggest problem is that they do not get to see the property, so sometimes people give high bids. Lenders always consult with agents and get a BPO (broker price opinion) of some sort.

Lenders pay around $45 to $50 for a drive by broker price opinion and $75 to $100 for an interior BPO. When agents do drive by BPOs they are determining the price by just looking at the outside of the house, so they do not know what damage there might be inside. Bruce says the paperwork is very much similar to that of an appraiser’s.

Bruce asks Shelley if she has people in her company that are being affected by the new appraisal rules and the Home Valuation Code of Conduct. Shelley says that she does not know if agents are being severely affected by this new rule, but she does know that the closings are taking longer. They are also getting paid half as much for the appraisals when dealing with the new management companies. Shelley is glad that steps are being taken to prevent fraud but she thinks that these new rules are hurting appraisers. It’s important to have arms lengths transactions but the Realtors can sometimes point out subtleties in the market that appraisers wouldn’t get to on their own. Agents can actually help arrive at the proper price. Bruce feels that same about the appraisal issues and how they are affecting investors in the market. Bruce feels that these new rules are unfair because they assume that people who make deals quickly are looking for trouble. In reality, over 90 percent of the people who do their business quickly are doing so simply because they are trying to be efficient and helpful. Shelley agrees with Bruce’s feelings on this.

Bruce saw a chart that showed that 35 percent of Option ARM borrowers are behind in payments, 72 percent of Option ARM owners owe more than their house is worth, and California has 58 percent of all those loans. Shelley says it is astonishing and there are also statistics say that those in loan modification plans often go back into default. Our government really hasn’t considered the whole picture. Bruce feels that there are many homeowners that are making their payment because that’s what they signed up for. But it will be important for prices to be supported within a reasonable amount of time and we won’t be saving everyone. We have had a 70 percent home ownership percentage, but historically that percentage has been around 62 percent. Bruce thinks that the home ownership percentage will go down to 62 percent which will leave a lot of vacant homes. Shelley thinks that we need to turn these empty homes into affordable rental units. If investors are buying these properties then they need to be careful not to raise rent. Bruce says that the market usually controls rental prices. If there are enough rentals then the price will come down, and that is occurring in some areas in California.

Bruce asks Shelley what she thinks about shadow inventory. Shelley says that there is a lot of unlisted inventory out there. A lot of lenders have been told by their management that the burst of the bubble is coming within the next 60 days. She doesn’t know if they have been holding that much of the inventory or if the moratorium has caused the problem. The next 60 days she says she is hearing it’s going to explode.

Bruce says in San Bernardino County, there were 40,000 trustee sales in 2008, and there were about 22,000 sales. Bruce asks if other states are looking at California’s situation and wondering why Californians are so worried. Shelley says that there are some states that have been hit less than others, but for the most part, everyone is feeling the same pain. Bruce asks if California is going to experience more trouble within the next 18 months, and if higher priced inventory will be affected. Shelley says that is true and that some of the higher priced inventory is going into the foreclosure market, and more prime inventory is going into default.

Bruce says he hears advertisements for attorneys every day for loan fraud and workouts. Bruce asks Shelley if lenders are having trouble with people looking for loopholes. She does not know if there are many attorneys looking for loopholes, but there are attorneys looking to stop specific attorneys from doing this.

Bruce asks Shelley if she was president for a year, what national policies she would implement to help housing recover. She would focus on creating jobs so that people can pay for their homes. She thinks that principalities and municipalities need to cooperate with buyers and lenders. Programs need to be set up so that people can work on properties and fix them up. More 40 year mortgages need to be put in place, so that payments become more affordable. She would also want less moratoriums being placed on the market so that the problems can fix themselves. Some people should have never been in homeownership to begin with. More incentives need to given to lenders who work with home owners.

Bruce asks Shelley if it might be good to create a short term policy that would forgive foreclosures faster than before since this scenario got so out of hand. Shelley thinks that would be a good idea because people are losing their good credit. The government should really talk to the industry that’s at work so they understand what’s happening the in marketplace. For more information visit

Shelley Kaye recently joined InSource Financial Services, LLC as a Portfolio Acquisitions Specialist, handling bulk sale purchases of REO properties. Prior to joining InSource she was a Servicing Oversight Specialist with ECC Capital and for 11 years a Senior Asset Manager for First Option Asset Management Services, managing a team of associates as well as a multi-state REO portfolio. Before working at FOAMS, she spent seven years at First Central Bank where she was the assistant to the VP of the Servicing Department. She has been a licensed Realtor for over 20 years and sold properties in Southern California prior to entering the mortgage banking field.

Shelley has served on the REOMAC® Board for the past 8 years and participates as a speaker on a variety of panels for many industry events. She has held the offices of Sponsor Chair, Treasurer, Secretary, and Vice President , prior to becoming REOMAC President in 2008.

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Friday, June 5, 2009

Shelley Kaye of REOMAC #125

This week Bruce is joined by Shelley Kaye, the president of REOMAC. She also works with InSource Financial Services, where she handles bulk sale purchases.

Bruce begins the radio show by asking Shelley what REOMAC stands for. REOMAC stands for Real Estate Owned Managers Association. It was founded in 1985 by a group of REO asset managers, who met during the California downturn in order to exchange business ideas. Originally the members were only asset managers, but now the group is composed of anyone who can compliment agents and asset managers. Because the market has significantly changed, the lenders are using other sources to help sell their properties.
REOMAC membership has grown substantially, because networking is very important during these difficult times. Right now, REOMAC has stopped accepting new members because they are trying to reformat the organization so that people who want to join can get into the organization. The organizations bylaws say that the membership must be balanced so there are currently more agents that are wanting to join. There are currently four levels of membership that Shelley explains.

The cost of being a member of REOMAC varies by category. The lenders pay $75 dollars per year, the outsource members pay $150 per year, and their affiliate and broker members pay $375 per year.
REOMAC holds about ten to twelve meetings per year around the country and they also have two conferences. Their most recent conference was in Rancho Mirage, and over 2,500 people attended.

Bruce asks Shelley if REOMAC also has members that deal with commercial lender-owned properties. Shelley just implemented a commercial committee this year because REOMAC knew that as the market turned around that would be another phase of default. In their last conference, REOMAC had a session on commercial real estate, and many people were interested.

Bruce feels that commercial real estate is going to be the next market to get hurt. The agents who are prepared for this market will have a lot of business. Shelley agrees that agents need to be prepared for the commercial market because the down economy is affecting every area of business.

Bruce asks Shelley if REOMAC has its largest number of members in California. Shelley says that California does represent its largest member population which is partially due to the fact that REOMAC started as a California organization. When Shelley joined REOMAC in 2001 there was not much business going on with lender owned properties. Subprime loans were going crazy and people were recognizing that people could go in and buy a home. At that time REOMAC had about 300 REOs in the entire company. Last year, REOMAC had closer to 20,000 REOs.

In 2008, lenders were overwhelmed by the number of defaults in their portfolios. They were unable to sell their inventory faster than it was coming in. Bruce asks Shelley if there are agents who have been thru this cycle before saying that there is a difference in how their properties are being handled this time. Shelley does not think there has ever been such a bombardment of properties.
Bruce says that asset managers once talked to REO agents, and there was some type of communication on a regular basis, but now their communication relies on email, and this is sometimes frustrating for an agent. Shelley agrees and disagrees with that statement. Agents are busy in the field as well. Most of the lenders went to online systems, and since you could do all your business online, there was less need to speak to agents.

Bruce says that in 2008, there was a challenge in pricing properties correctly and the lenders took a lot of losses that they could have avoided if they had just listened to their local agents. Shelley does not think that the lenders necessarily needed to listen to the agents because when agents work for a lender they are appraisal driven. The appraisers and brokers were disagreeing with each other. Nobody could keep up with the speed in which property values were dropping. It took a while for everyone to understand what was occurring in the market place. People had many years of increasing prices, so it was hard to fathom that prices were dropping as quickly as they were.

In the past, when there was a decline, the appraisers would notify the seller that they were deducting three percent per month to accommodate for what was occurring in the market place. In this downturn, people were not doing that because they did not understand what has happening. They did not have the proper statistics. If they were looking at comps, that would not work. If they were looking at stats that were even 90 days old, then the broker would have a poor understanding of what they would get for their property. Appraisers give you information from data, rather than what is going on in the market place. The lenders started to realize that the agents were their best source of information.

Bruce asks Shelley if it has been difficult to keep up with all of the rule changes that have been applied to the foreclosure process. Shelley says that it has been difficult for everybody, because there have been times where people were about to sell a property, and in the middle of the process, some sort of law changes.
Laws have been made on both the national and state level. Bruce asks Shelley if a lot of states are having moratoriums. California did for a while but the lenders are the ones that have really put the moratoriums in place. When Fannie and Freddie started doing this, everyone else followed suit.

Bruce asks Shelley if there is any chance for a national moratorium. Shelley hopes not, and she thinks that nobody truly believes that the moratoriums are doing anything other than delaying the inevitable. When someone creates a moratorium for 9 months it messes with your business model and you have to staff up for that. The moratoriums are affecting the REO agents and the lenders. While the moratoriums may keep people in their homes temporarily, it may also be putting other people out of work, which will lead them to losing their homes.

A new rule has just been created that protects tenants after the foreclosure sale. This rule allows anyone who has a lease agreement to stay inside a property during the entire time of the lease. Shelley says that the wording in this new law is vague and unclear, so attorneys are trying to interpret the meaning. The problem with this rule is that it turns lenders into landlords, and that is not the intent of any mortgage or loan process. This is expensive for any lender that exists and it will put fear into the next lender who takes over the property. Shelley says that some people worry that this law will scare away potential investors who buy properties from foreclosure sales. Bruce confirms this belief saying we will not buy a property with a tenant. Shelley wonders who will be collecting the rents as well. Will the agents collect the rent? But why would they do that if they are not going to be able to sell the property? The system is not set up to handle this.

Investors won’t touch this because typically when buying at trustee sale the investor has not seen the inside of the house, has not met the renters, and have no idea what the lease agreement says.

It is difficult to determine what a valid lease is, and whether or not a property is actually something you want to keep. Bruce fears that people will take advantage of this law by faking people into believing that they are legitimate tenants, and that they have the right to take charge of the lease. It seems difficult for the lenders to do this without taking on a lot of losses. The longer they hold on to their properties the more expensive it is, and the less they will be able to make on them. This law may also turn them into a landlord with many other responsibilities and they are not ready for that.

The cities in California have passed a law that allows the city to fine lenders $1,000 dollars a day for things such as brown lawns and green pools. Bruce knows cities that have hired code enforcement people who are paid just to check up on these things. This is actually occurring in Chicago and other cities as well. This is unfair because there are many occasions where the lender does not have the property vacant so that they can repair the property. The cities are just putting the lenders in a position where they will have to spend more and more money. Cities need to be in partnership with the owner of those properties. Cities are starting to fine properties right after they go into foreclosure but they are not fining the occupant or the owner.

Shelley Kaye recently joined InSource Financial Services, LLC as a Portfolio Acquisitions Specialist, handling bulk sale purchases of REO properties. Prior to joining InSource she was a Servicing Oversight Specialist with ECC Capital and for 11 years a Senior Asset Manager for First Option Asset Management Services, managing a team of associates as well as a multi-state REO portfolio. Before working at FOAMS, she spent seven years at First Central Bank where she was the assistant to the VP of the Servicing Department. She has been a licensed Realtor for over 20 years and sold properties in Southern California prior to entering the mortgage banking field.

Shelley has served on the REOMAC® Board for the past 8 years and participates as a speaker on a variety of panels for many industry events. She has held the offices of Sponsor Chair, Treasurer, Secretary, and Vice President , prior to becoming REOMAC President in 2008.

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