Joseph Magdziarz Joins Bruce Norris on the Real Estate Radio Show #188

This week the Norris Group continues with radio interviews leading up to I Survived Real Estate 2010: The State of REO. On the radio show this week is 2011 president of the Appraisal Institute, Joseph Magdziarz. Bruce and and Joseph discuss current developments for the appraisal industry including HVCC nad possible changes moving forward and the industry adjusts in the marketplace.

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I Survived Real Estate 2009 part 8 #148

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents the final eposide of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This segment features the much talked about panel discussion between Bruce Norris , Christopher Thornberg with Beacon Economics, Rick Sharga with RealtyTrac, John Young with the California Builders Industry Association, Pat Combs with the National Association of Realtors, Joseph Magdziarz from the Appraisal Institute, and David Kittle with The Mortgage Bankers Association.

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I Survived Real Estate 2009 part 7 #147

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 8 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This segment features the much talked about panel discussion between Bruce Norris , Christopher Thornberg with Beacon Economics, Rick Sharga with RealtyTrac, John Young with the California Builders Industry Association, Pat Combs with the National Association of Realtors, Joseph Magdziarz from the Appraisal Institute, and David Kittle with The Mortgage Bankers Association.

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I Survived Real Estate 2009 part 6 #146

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 7 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This segment features the much talked about panel discussion between Bruce Norris , Christopher Thornberg with Beacon Economics, Rick Sharga with RealtyTrac, John Young with the California Builders Industry Association, Pat Combs with the National Association of Realtors, Joseph Magdziarz from the Appraisal Institute, and David Kittle with The Mortgage Bankers Association.

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I Survived Real Estate 2009 part 5 #145

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 6 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This segment features Bruce Norris finishing of his presentation and then we enter part two of the event which features all eight panelists including Christopher Thornberg with Beacon Economics, Rick Sharga with RealtyTrac, John Young with the California Builders Industry Association, Pat Combs with the National Association of Realtors, Joseph Magdziarz from the Appraisal Institute, and David Kittle with The Mortgage Bankers Association.

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I Survived Real Estate 2009 part 4 #144

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 5 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This segment features Joseph Magdziarz from the Appraisal Institute and David Kittle with The Mortgage Bankers Association.

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I Survived Real Estate 2009 part 3 #143

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Part of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 4 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This segment features Tommy Williams from Williams and Williams and the National Auctioneer Association as well as Joseph Magdziarz from the Appraisal Institute.

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Joseph Magdziarz of the Appraisal Institute #137

This week Bruce is joined by Joseph Magdziarz. He is the current Vice President of the Appraisal Institute and he will become the President Elect in 2010 and President in 2011. He has been associated with the Appraisal Institute for 38 years.

Bruce begins by asking if Joseph if he considers business nowadays to be usual or unusual. Joseph has seen similar conditions in the late 80s and early 90s, but for many people, this is a new experience.

Bruce asks Joseph to explain what is similar about our current market and the market of the late 80s. The declining prices of real estate but the cause of these declines is significantly different.

Something radically changed a few months ago in the appraisal business. The Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) agreement between the Attorney General Cuomo and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac caused this change. A few years before the HVCC came out, Joseph was lobbying with Congress about the pressure being put on appraisers to make inflated home appraisals. People were happy with many appraisers, because they received high appraisals, but this problem put ethical appraisers out of business, because they would not cooperate with people who wanted their home values inflated. Some of the new people coming into the business may have given into the pressure to make bad appraisals because they did not have the established relationships with lenders that some of the well known appraisers had.

The goal number for an appraiser is market value. Bruce asks if that is still the goal that appraisers are shooting for. Joseph says that is what appraisers are trying to estimate but some of the values coming out are closer to distressed asset value rather than market value.

Bruce asks if something has changed in the appraising process or if the changes are coming in after the appraiser states a market value and someone attempts to correct them. The definition of market value has not changed since 1989. The methodology has not changed either. Joseph thinks that many appraisers have not experienced a distressed market such as the market we are currently in. The HVCC, and the lenders’ choice to move much of their business to appraisal management companies, have caused a lot of problems.

This is one of the first markets we have had in 10 years in which we have declining prices. It is legitimate to have a 90 day old comp that is worth less today than it was when you first got it. Bruce asks if the big problem is that we do not have enough fully repaired homes as comps in comparison to vacant REOs. Jospeh says it’s very localized. Joseph says this is a big problem in some parts of the country, but the real problem occurs when all the occurring sales are foreclosures and short sales.

The definition of market value is the meeting of the minds between a buyer and a seller, each equally motivated and knowledgeable, and without undue pressure. If you have a bank with many foreclosures, they are more motivated than a typical seller would be. They will often dispose of those assets at a lower price which makes none of those properties a valid comp. The motivation of the buyer and seller is important when evaluating market value.

TNG’s business is buying and fixing properties that need work. TNG typically puts $35,000 dollars into a repair job, and they typically end up with a property that is worth about $140,000. It is very hard to get $35 grand worth of credit. There seems to be a rule which only allows a ten percent credit limit for the kind of properties that TNG deals with. Bruce asks Joseph to explain this issue. Joseph explains that this issue relates back to a Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac guideline that says when you have an adjustment greater than 10 percent, you need to explain it. As the percent of adjustment increases, the sale becomes less comparable. There is no ten percent requirement. This is just a guideline, but unfortunately, some of the underwriters believe it to be a rule.

Bruce has had trouble with this guideline. For example, Bruce had 6 offers on a property being sold at 122,000, but then the appraisal came at 102,000, and then the review appraisal came in at 85,000. That is far from what 6 buyers thought the market value was. In the end, Bruce did not sell this property and he kept it as a rental home. If an appraiser is not able to honor the market decision of a buyer, then the market price in some areas will go down further for no good reason. Part of this problem goes back to the HVCC stating that there needs to be a firewall between people originating a loan and people doing appraisals. At this time, that firewall is the appraisal management company. One of the main complaints that Joseph is getting is that many appraisals are being done by appraisers who are not experienced enough in their geographic region.

Bruce asks how appraisers are assigned properties to appraise. Some companies broadcast assignments to everyone on their approved list, so the first person to sign up for the job gets it. The problem with the AMC is that they are not giving these jobs to experienced appraisers. The AMC is focused on getting these jobs done quickly rather than effectively. Better appraisers are missing out on jobs because they cost more. They are hiring people with not enough experience.

The Appraiser’s Institute company has 26,000 members. Each one of these members receives notifications saying that they need to have the proper experience necessary to get jobs done properly, otherwise the Appraisers Institute will take aggressive enforcement against any member who accepts a job that they are not qualified for. These members are also given information on how to turn in unqualified appraisers.

In July, the current president of the Appraisal Institute met with Congress to discuss this issue. He also reminded them a few years before that these problems were occurring, and they failed to act on those problems back then. These problems do not look like they will be dealt with until some time next year. A few bill are pending but nothing will be done until next year.

Bruce asks if the Appraisal Management Companies has to be run by someone with an appraisal background. This is a problem that the Appraisal Institute has been lobbying for as well. There are appraisers who have had their licenses revoked that are now supervising other appraisers. Joseph thinks it would be better if appraisers were required to be licensed within their state.

Bruce asks if communication is allowed between agents and appraisers who are working for Fannie or Freddie. Joseph says this is not forbidden. The loan officer is not allowed to communicate with the appraiser, but Realtors and management companies can communicate with appraisers. Appraisers have an obligation to verify information given to them about a sale. This is a misunderstood rule that Bruce has had difficulty with. Bruce has called appraisers who told him that he was not allowed to talk to them.

Bruce asks Joseph about what the fee was for an appraiser before HVCC and what that fee is now. This is one of the five biggest problems that the Appraisals Institute currently has. Not all appraisal management companies are the same. In Chicago, GAMCO uses Appraisal Institute members, and they give designated members 90 percent of the fee, and they give non designated members 80 percent of the fee. What Joseph has heard nowadays is that management companies are starting to take 50 to 60 percent of the fees. When that happens, the better appraisers refuse to work for those companies. That leaves the new appraisers with the ability to get into the business, and they may not be qualified. Joseph fears that these rules may cause some very knowledgeable people leaving the business. Another problem with management companies is that they require a 24 to 48 hour turn around time. This does not allow appraisers to get to know the market value of a specific market.

We now have the ability to use automated appraisals (AVM), but these automated appraisals are trumping appraisals made by actual appraisers. These automated appraisals are done on a statistical basis. The problem with these reports is that they do not use comparable sales. These automated appraisals essentially come up with a median value rather than a market value. These mechanical appraisers are not capable of looking next door to a certain property in order to obtain a better understanding of the value of the home being examined.

Joseph is can be seen September 11th at our I Survived Real Estate 2009 event.

Joseph C. Magdziarz, MAI, SRA is the 2009 vice president of the Appraisal Institute. He will become the president elect in 2010 and president of the Appraisal Institute in 2011.

Magdziarz has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years. He has served in a variety of capacities at all levels of the organization.

At the regional level, Magdziarz has served two terms as Regional Vice Chair and two terms as Region III Chair. He has also been a regional representative for many years. On the national level, Magdziarz served two terms on the Appraisal Institute’s National Board of Directors. He has served as Chair of the Education Committee for five years and has also chaired the National Audit Committee, Instructor and Faculty Committees, and Education and Publications Committees. In addition, he has served on a number of project teams. Presently, he is serving on the ADAPT (MAI demonstration report alternative) project team and the International Education and Designation project team.

Magdziarz has been President of Appraisal Research, Inc. in Rockford, Illinois for 38 years. He resides in Rockford, Illinois with his wife Sandra of 41 years and his bulldog Bella.
Magdziarz is an approved Appraisal Institute instructor for 26 courses in the Appraisal Institute’s QE, AE, CE, and USPAP curriculums. He has also had international assignments in Naples, Italy; Istanbul, Turkey; Seoul, South Korea; and Beijing, Tianjin, and Shanghai, China.

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Joseph Magdziarz of the Appraisal Institute #115

Bruce Norris is joined again by upcoming 2011 President of the National Appraisal Institute, Joseph Magdziarz.

Bruce asks Joseph why he’s teaching appraisal courses in foreign countries. Joseph says numerous foreign countries are asking for the education so they can find out how to write an appraisal that could be understood globally. This will allow them to participate in the global mortgage market.

Joseph says the ultimate goal of an appraisal is to assign a value of an asset in the now. An acceptable margin of error for an appraisal is 3% but no more than 5%. The definition of market value is a buyer and seller under no undue stimulus coming to an agreement on a price to be paid for an asset. Joseph talks about REOs and short sales and how they should not be factored in to appraisals as they are liquidation prices.

Bruce beings up this appraisal issue which investors are having to deal with when they purchase these types of homes and then repaire them in California. Joseph says the banks should not consider REOs and short sales market value because of the repairs being done and the risk the investor takes in this market. Bruce asks if the new buyer of a fixed home is setting the new market value. Joseph says in the open market, it should but the appraisal might be different because of all glut of REO comps. Often times, appraisers are not being fair and many properties are being undervalued which is a problem.

Bruce brings up the typical scenario of The Norris Group when dealing with appraisals in the current California real estate market. TNG purchases the distressed, “as is” property from auction or from an REO agent and spends time and money upgrading the property. If TNG gets multiple offers, why isn’t it considered market value?

Joseph says competent appraisers will say that that does create market value. Submitting those back up offers could really help force the appraisers make that market adjustment.

Bruce asks if there is no similar inventory, what should investors do? Joseph says hire someone with specific experience with an MAI or SRA designation. Bruce talks about an area in Moreno Valley and the glut of vacant REO and “as is” inventory. When TNG fixes something, the appraiser is typically not getting cooperation because there is no similar substitutions in the market. We’re the only fixed up property.

Bruce talks about the appraisal business in 2004-2005 and how they were feeling pressure to get to a certain high number for refinances. Bruce asks if there is now the opposite pressure from banks wanting to loan less thinking the value will continue to decline.

Joseph says lenders can make loans in a declining market at today’s value and shouldn’t feel like there’s excessive risk if there are the three C’s: collateral, capacity to pay, and credit rating. Joseph says he heard that appraisers were using foreclosure and short sales and these DO NOT make market value so are inappropriate. Liquidation value is a better term for these types of inventory.

Bruce brings up review appraisals and how the original appraisers are worried about coming in too high for fear of being blacklisted from doing work for a certain account if the numbers are adjusted. Bruce asks about the review appraisal process and what authority they have to adjust prices the way they do. Joseph says these review appraisals have to come up with their own opinion but to arbitrarily adjust a number up or down 10% without just cause would be a violation. Many times these reviewers are not following the same license laws the appraisers are required to follow. Appraisers could ask for the review appraiser to send to them the review but most probably won’t. They are entitled to a copy of the review appraisal.

Bruce asks if the review appraiser goes out into the field. Joseph says they often do the review behind a desk using AVM. This is not the same and is just an estimate. Joseph says many lenders might be looking for quick and cheap. Joseph says the lending institution or review company they pay does the review appraisal which is also causing a problem.

Bruce asks how difficult it is for appraisers to work in a market with such wide swings in price, sometimes monthly. Joseph says he doesn’t know how they work in states like California. He says only the best people should be doing these appraisals. People need to use a professional appraisers and not AVMs or BPOs.

Bruce asks if there are new rules for appraisals coming down the pike. Joseph say the Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) says any new loans that are purchased has to have an appraisal and any existing can be less than that. A borrower is also required to get a copy of the appraisal. Joseph said the use of management companies is causing a problem because they are keeping part of the fees that should go to the appraisers so they may be spending less time doing a proper job.

Joseph says an appraisal is typically good for six months but in this market, it’s not as relevant. Bruce asks about improvements on homes above and beyond like pools and upgraded hardscaping. In an inactive market, it’s very difficult to assign a value to these extras. An appraisal will have to try and find similar comps. In this type of market, it is possible for these extras to result in little extra value.

Bruce asks about “standard 3.” Joseph says they are 10 sets of rules that govern the appraisal industry. For more information, visit appraisalinstitute.org.

Joseph C. Magdziarz, MAI, SRA is the 2009 vice president of the Appraisal Institute. He will become the president elect in 2010 and president of the Appraisal Institute in 2011.

Magdziarz has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years. He has served in a variety of capacities at all levels of the organization.

At the regional level, Magdziarz has served two terms as Regional Vice Chair and two terms as Region III Chair. He has also been a regional representative for many years. On the national level, Magdziarz served two terms on the Appraisal Institute’s National Board of Directors. He has served as Chair of the Education Committee for five years and has also chaired the National Audit Committee, Instructor and Faculty Committees, and Education and Publications Committees. In addition, he has served on a number of project teams. Presently, he is serving on the ADAPT (MAI demonstration report alternative) project team and the International Education and Designation project team.

Magdziarz has been President of Appraisal Research, Inc. in Rockford, Illinois for 38 years. He resides in Rockford, Illinois with his wife Sandra of 41 years and his bulldog Bella.
Magdziarz is an approved Appraisal Institute instructor for 26 courses in the Appraisal Institute’s QE, AE, CE, and USPAP curriculums. He has also had international assignments in Naples, Italy; Istanbul, Turkey; Seoul, South Korea; and Beijing, Tianjin, and Shanghai, China.

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Joseph Magdziarz of the Appraisal Institute #114

Bruce Norris is joined this week upcoming 2011 President of the National Appraisal Institute, Joseph Magdziarz.

Bruce starts by asking what the MAI designation means. MAI used to stand of “Member of the Appraisal Institute” but now means a members holds the highest professional designation for appraisers. The SRA designation is for residential appraisals and once again gives you the highest designation for that profession. These designations are given by mandated educations and experience.

In 1989, the FIRREA Act was passed. The FIRREA Act was put in place to create barriers to entry for those seeking to become professional appraisers and also to standardize the appraisal process. While it didn’t clean up the appraisal institute completely, it did put in place important systems. In 2008, the Appraisal Foundation brought education and review to a new level. This is still a work in process.

Joseph says on-the-job training is probably the most important aspect of a trainee becoming competent in the world of appraisals. Bruce asks what the stimulus was behind the FIRREA Act. Joseph tells him that at the time there was huge losses going on and lenders were able to hire whoever they wanted and they sometimes had no experience. This lack of experience was seen as a huge part of the problem during the S&L crisis.

Bruce talks about the current markets and asks if appraisers are taking some of the heat for the foreclosure problems. Joseph mentions the Appraisal Institute just got back from a Washington D.C. meeting with Congress and other groups in related industries. The Congressional Research Services gave them a copy of a report that was done on all the causes of the current crises. Out of 26 key areas that are listed as the cause of the real estate and mortgage backed securities issues, the appraiser world is not listed. Joseph says it’s good but it doesn’t mean the organization is perfect yet.

Bruce asks if Joseph sees legislative changes coming regardless of who is at fault for the current real estate crisis. Joseph says the Appraisal Institute’s president, Jim Amorin, is testifying before the Congressional Housing and Finance Committee speaking on the Housing Valuation Code of Conduct.

Bruce says in California foreclosures are a huge percentage of the for sale inventory. Often the process starts with a BPO. He asks is appraisers are part of that process. With BPOs, Joseph says there is not accountability and the requirements are different. Joseph says there are different motivations and that appraisers are required to remain unbiased.

Bruce asks how Realtors and appraisers get along and if they typically agree on important issues. Joseph says the two groups differ greatly on the BPO issue and appraisers think Realtors and brokers should be held to the same standards when making real estate evaluations and appraisals. Many states have their own rules and regulations so the National Association of Realtors doesn’t have much control of this issue on a state level. There are 23 states that currently prohibit BPOs for lending purposes. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were unaware of this and called their management companies immediately and halted the practice in those states.

Bruce says a few years ago he was at a Five Star Conference and a lender was on the stage when a broker asked why she had never gotten a listing from the numerous BPO submittals she had put forward. The lender admitted to giving the listing to the highest BPO they received. Joseph says that doesn’t surprise him.

Bruce asks how much of a problem coercion is for appraisers. Joseph says it’s been a real problem lately and especially in states like California. There was recently a lawsuit about an appraiser getting blacklisted because he didn’t give a lender a certain price. The Home Valuation Code of Conduct should address this as a new hotline will be created so appraisals can report this when issues like coercion arise. Joseph says there could be a penalty if an appraiser was caught adjusting numbers or was influenced. The other side is not currently help accountable and that should change.

Bruce says he had read that appraisers may soon have to be bonded and asks how that would change the appraiser business. Joseph says it would be devastating to the business. This would raise an appraiser’s overhead $16,000 and that would be passed on to the customers. The lenders should be the one with the bond since they approve the loan.

Bruce talks about the cramdown in which a current appraisal is necessary. Joseph says it’s excellent for appraisers but it hasn’t passed it yet. Too many people did home valuation models and BPOs and not professionals appraisals. It would have helped. There is a downside to cramdowns so he’s waiting to see what happens.

Bruce asks about valuations models. Joseph says sometimes they are very good and sometimes they are really bad. Areas like San Diego where there are a huge amount of dissimilar properties in a neighborhood make these models less effective. AVM is a type of regression analysis reliant on historical data so it’s not always current. Sometimes these models aren’t updated for sometimes months. Bruce asks if this is the issue with review appraisers. Joseph says this is more of an opinion and not a real estimate. AVM stands for automation evaluation model.

Fannie and Freddie say they test and update their systems often but to not give details. Every time new data gets in the model changes. But once a downward trend starts, it will predict lower and lower numbers much like it did when the market was booming. It works best when markets are flatter.

Bruce asks Joseph what changes he would like to say in the business. Joseph would like to see more education and higher standard of competence for all appraisers.

Listen in next week as the interview continues. To read more on the Appraisal Institute, see appraisalinstitute.org.

Joseph C. Magdziarz, MAI, SRA is the 2009 vice president of the Appraisal Institute. He will become the president elect in 2010 and president of the Appraisal Institute in 2011.

Magdziarz has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years. He has served in a variety of capacities at all levels of the organization.

At the regional level, Magdziarz has served two terms as Regional Vice Chair and two terms as Region III Chair. He has also been a regional representative for many years. On the national level, Magdziarz served two terms on the Appraisal Institute’s National Board of Directors. He has served as Chair of the Education Committee for five years and has also chaired the National Audit Committee, Instructor and Faculty Committees, and Education and Publications Committees. In addition, he has served on a number of project teams. Presently, he is serving on the ADAPT (MAI demonstration report alternative) project team and the International Education and Designation project team.
Magdziarz has been President of Appraisal Research, Inc. in Rockford, Illinois for 38 years. He resides in Rockford, Illinois with his wife Sandra of 41 years and his bulldog Bella.

Magdziarz is an approved Appraisal Institute instructor for 26 courses in the Appraisal Institute’s QE, AE, CE, and USPAP curriculums. He has also had international assignments in Naples, Italy; Istanbul, Turkey; Seoul, South Korea; and Beijing, Tianjin, and Shanghai, China.

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