Tommy Williams with the National Auctioneers Association 7-31-10 #185

This week the Norris Group continues with radio interviews leading up to I Survived Real Estate 2010: The State of REO. On the radio show this week is 2008 President of the National Auctioneers Association and Co-Founder of Williams and Williams Auction Company, Tommy Williams. Bruce and Tommy discuss current market place trends with real estate auctions, when auctions work the best, if auctions are being used for REO, and what to look for in a good auction company.

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Tommy Williams with the National Auctioneers Association #118

Bruce Norris is joined once again by past President and current Chairman of the Board for the National Auctioneers Association and co-founder of Williams and Williams Auctions, Tommy Williams.

Bruce starts by asking if there is a different process in selling real estate and cattle. Tommy says there is a slight difference but he’s hoping the audience will still understand. He says cattle auction goes a little faster and is a little more entertaining.

Auto auctions generate close to 50% of the proceeds for auctions. The end buyers are typically dealers. There are both dealer and public auctions but some are only available to dealers.

July 13-18th is an auction reunion in Kansas and Bruce asks who attends. Tommy says over 1,000 auctioneers will attend and bring families. It is the best and main time of year to attend education for the auction industry. Over 60 seminars will be available.

Bruce asks about Tommy’s family history in the auctions business. Tommy says there was a little family history but he fell into it on his own. Tommy’s son Dean is an attorney and didn’t plan to be in the auction industry. Tommy moved the business from Illinois to Oklahoma and Dean visited while in school and ended up later partnering. Tommy says he has six grandkids and he thinks a few might be interested in the business.

Bruce talks about the model Williams and Williams has chosen and how it is different from other auction houses. Tommy says online auctions are a very viable way to sell items and Williams and Williams does conduct online auctions. However, Tommy says a property will earn 10% more on the lawn then it will bring online or in a ballroom setting. It’s significant and matters. There is more expense in having these types of auctions.

Tommy describes the difference between absolute and seller reserve auctions. Tommy says the absolute auction is by far the best and motivates the buyer to the ultimate level of bidding. It also attracts the most attendance which is key for the best price. Tommy says many can’t stomach absolute so more are sold with reserve.

Tommy says it not impossible for very experienced auctioneers make mistakes. It’s complicated and not as easy it may look. Advertising has definitely changed over the years. The newspaper has dropped in value each and every day and online advertising has gotten more important. The auction companies track the marketing process very carefully to see where most people are seeing the information.

Tommy says when the word “sold” is uttered, in an absolute auction, it is the most binding contract you can enter into. It is different in a seller reserve. Bruce talks about dealing with deposits in real estate now and how difficult closing can become. Tommy says he thinks 10% down should be at stake to make sure the buyers are truly qualified. Tommy says he doesn’t like the current way real estate is sold because of these issues as buyers can tie up your property will no ramifications if they don’t come through.

Tommy describes how the auction business is commissioned. Williams and Williams gets commissioned directly from the seller. Some lenders require, however, a buyer’s premium. Many more auctions are charging buyers but Tommy actually likes charging the seller. He thinks the buyers see the auction in a more positive light and the premium isn’t seen as a tax on their purchase.

Bruce asks about Tommy dealing with lower priced areas. Tommy says there are minimum fees that must be charged. There does become a point where auctions can’t sell a property because it doesn’t cover the fees.

Bruce talks about lenders not foreclosing on properties because there is more owned on the property then it is worth so lenders don’t do anything with it. Tommy says this issue is really serious and most people aren’t hearing about. Tommy says he’s seen some neighborhoods where 80% of the neighborhood is vacant. There’s almost no choice but to tear them down as they become magnets for vandalism, squatters, and drug labs. Bruce says it doesn’t even have to be an old areas and Tommy sounds surprised. Tommy says that’s why these homes have to be given occupants whether they are investors or owner occupants. Empty properties are not good for neighborhoods.

Bruce talks about Orange County and the FDIC leasing space to set up shop to deal with assets. He asks if Tommy has heard of that and if Williams and Williams were involved in the RTC situation. Tommy says they were slightly involved with the RTC but dealing with government is difficult. Tommy had not heard of the offices being rented in Orange County. Tommy is worried the FDIC will warehouse the properties and it will make the problem worse.

Bruce brings up a new term he saw on the Williams and Williams website called “auction referral cooperative.” Tommy says this is a way to establish a network of like-minded auctioneers that refer one another. There’s no financial obligation and they are simply looking for other auctioneers of the same mind and there’s a referral fee involved.

Thank you Tommy as always for joining us on the show. We look forward to seeing you again this year on September 11th, 2009 for I Survived Real Estate 2009. See more on Williams and Williams at Williamsauction.com.

Tommy served as President of the National Auctioneers Association in 2008 and is current Chairman of the Board. Tommy also graciously took part in I Survived Real Estate 2008 last year.

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

An avid cattleman, Williams also owned and operated Bradmar Angus Farms from 1965-85, after which he continued to serve as a herd and genetics consultant for many of the nation's premier Angus cattle breeders.

Williams is a licensed auctioneer and real estate broker in over 20 states, and an active member of the National Association of Realtors.

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Tommy Williams with the National Auctioneers Association #117

Bruce Norris is joined this week by past President and current Chairman of the Board for the National Auctioneers Association and co-founder of Williams and Williams Auctions, Tommy Williams.

Bruce starts the interview by asking what auction companies miss out on when they aren’t members of the National Auctioneers Association. Tommy says non members miss out of networking, best practices, and education which furthers their professional endeavors. April 18th is national auction day and Tommy would like auctioneers to make communities aware of the benefit that auctions bring to the community. Auctions have the huge benefit of establishing market value on a certain day for numerous products and assets. They also might highlight their charity work in the community through charity auctions. Tommy feels the media picks up too much negative information about auctions and doesn’t highlight all the positives.

Bruce says he read that auctions raise as much money for charities that is sold in real estate and Tommy says that is true. Tommy says auctioneers bring a very important piece of expertise to nonprofit organizations.

Bruce asks if Realtors view auctions as competitors or partners and Tommy thinks too many see auctions as competitors. Tommy says there is fear that auctions establish market value and sometimes people don’t want to really know that actual value. The real estate community wants to not take the hit. Bruce says he’s baulked at final bids before and most times he paid for not selling at that time. Tommy says all of us have been in that situation. Usually, the public will tell the truth and auctions are the best barometer for prices and it will also tell you where price trends are going.

Bruce asks if women are getting more involved in auctions. Tommy says this is a growing trend as it used to be a male dominated field. Tommy says 20-30% of classes for auctions are now women.

Bruce asks about legislative issues that are affecting auctions in general. Tommy says that when legislation postpones the sale of assets it usually means there will be net price deterioration. Real estate is very fragile and unattended and vacant homes tend to lose value.

Bruce says Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac postponed auctions for their properties but in April have started back up. Doing this moratorium cost them money. Tommy says their unwillingness to accept market value has cost them millions. The more they postpone, the worse it will get.

Bruce says he read the auction magazine that in the last few years $270 billion worth of assets were sold. Tommy says this is not a record but getting close. There’s been steady growth in the total dollar sold at auction. 2008 saw prices for assets decline so volume went up but prices were down due to devaluation. So in volume, 2007 and 2008 were record setting years.

Bruce talks about trustee sales and how the lack of advertising doesn’t help the cause. Bruce asks if the National Auctioneers Association has any intent to try and get involved in the trustee sale process. Tommy says that was one of his main goals as President was to do away with the traditional foreclosure process. If the home was sold at the trustee sale to an end user it would save the mortgage holder at least $15,000 in transaction fees. This is not including price declines. This would be of huge benefit to the mortgage industry as a new loan with a new end user would immediately take the property.

Bruce talks about current laws and issues of cities hiring people solely to write fines to homes that are considered blight and that are violating codes. Tommy worries that these types of laws only makes lenders not excited to loan which further exacerbates the lending policies we currently face. No one will want to lend in these areas.

Bruce asks Tommy if he’s nervous about a shift in the American perspective. Tommy says he is concerned that capitalism and private enterprise is something that Americans are now wondering if they should be in favor of. Bruce says he’s concerned as well for some of the things that he’s seen and hopes we can solve some of these issues soon. At “I Survived Real Estate 2008” several solutions were presented but none have been implemented. Bruce things banks could save themselves so much time and money by doing so.

Tommy talks about his pre-foreclosure auction concept. Some Realtors are doing something very similar without approval. Tommy says they’ve implemented something very similar in their company and they’ve tried it out with consumers. As soon as a consumer was falling behind, Williams and Williams worked with the consumer to present the property to the public as well as possible. The final offer was presented to the lender. However, the loan servicer is typically the decision maker and is far removed from the actual decision maker. The goal needs to be lenders getting rid of this stuff as soon as possible to get things moving. This particular solutions gets a new person in the home right away.

For more information visit williamsauction.com or thenorrisgroup.com. Join us next week for part two with Tommy Williams.

Tommy served as President of the National Auctioneers Association in 2008 and is current Chairman of the Board. Tommy also graciously took part in I Survived Real Estate 2008 last year.

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

An avid cattleman, Williams also owned and operated Bradmar Angus Farms from 1965-85, after which he continued to serve as a herd and genetics consultant for many of the nation's premier Angus cattle breeders.

Williams is a licensed auctioneer and real estate broker in over 20 states, and an active member of the National Association of Realtors.

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I Survived Real Estate 2008 part 5 #87

Part five of “I Survived Real Estate 2008” picks up with Bruce Norris introducing Tommy Williams, president of the National Auctioneers Association and co-founder of Williams and Williams Auction Company. Tommy has been involved in over 10,000 real estate transactions in his very lengthy career.

Tommy starts right away with his solution. Tommy brings to the table an idea he’s been passionate about for many years. Reality in the market place is what it is and there’s no way around it. The entire world sets prices by the auction process and not just real estate.

Instead of having a foreclosure process, Tommy suggests we skip foreclosures all together. The foreclosure process leaves an empty house and starts a very expensive process for the bank. The neighboring homes next door to the foreclosure see house values go down because of blight, the bank goes the a long and expensive process, and the foreclosed consumer leaves with damaged credit.

Tommy suggests a short sale auction hybrid. The consumer about to foreclosure would still be in the home when the auction took place and the home would be handed to someone ready to fill the home and at true market price. After the auction, the foreclosed consumer and the bank would need to deal with the deficiency but at the least the property would never be vacant.

The free market needs to work and the auction process needs to be involved. It would help us get back on track more quickly.

Bruce is the last speaker of the evening and starts talking about the cycles we go through and how we as humans often repeat the same mistakes. Solutions can also be from the past.

Bruce says that when we have a euphoric period there’s an exuberance that gets people in the market that should not be. The last to get in are usually the ones that are least capable. Emotions come into play and typically they cannot afford the home they purchased. This cycle we saw a record number of home owners but maybe we should never have got to such a high number.

Bruce shows a vacancy chart and how it climbed since 1985. Now it’s declining and rightfully so. Bruce thinks about 6% of homes will end up being vacant.

Tightening loan standards are creating issues. Bruce reads an article about lenders tightening programs. It makes it harder for people hard to qualify and refi what the already have which will make it worse.

We now have to deal with the largest foreclosure issue in history. Foreclosures are already at an all time high and will continue. These foreclosures have caused huge price erosions.

Bruce shows the audience a list of 20 homes The Norris Group purchased in the past 45 days through auction or out of the MLS and the huge price hits lenders are taking. On 20 transactions, the banks took a $4.6 million dollar loss. Bruce says he’s worried about the domino effect. Too many people owe more than their property is worth.

Bruce says there are three ways to solve a vacancy. We can tear down houses and create an artificial housing shortage. We can leave it vacant and wait for till household formation catches up with supply. Or, we could make it possible for investors to have financing to hold them.

Four solutions that are needed to get us back on track. The 203k loan program from FHA should be made available to investors. It was available to investors until 1996 and then FHA discontinued because it had done its job of getting rid of foreclosures. FHA doesn’t have a ton of foreclosures because they didn’t make a ton of loans. However, the loan program needs to be made available for investors to expedite the foreclosure problem.

Fannie and Freddie need to increase the number of loans they will give to investors. Both want to open offices in California to help unload inventory more quickly and investors are likely candidates. At the same time, they are cutting back on financing available. Both are in a dire situation. Fannie and Freddie hold a huge amount of the foreclosures.

Option Arms are the next wave and these loans represent 50% of Fannie and Freddie losses. Bruce shows the Option Arm reset chart. The chart shows the expected resets and what’s currently happening now. A huge number of these Option Arm loan holders are making teaser payments. Once the loan balance hits a certain percentage, the loan resets. 90% of the borrowers of these loans made the minimum payment. Many won’t walk until the reset because the payment is cheaper than rent.

The foreclosure process is now taking longer because the banks are so slammed but because of the new regulations as well. The bulk of these are set to land in 2009. The loan amounts were typically more than subprime and the lenders will have to recalculate what they made because of how they were writing things off.

Bruce says a due on sale moratorium would make it possible for investors to buy properties that would undoubtedly become foreclosures, it would allow Realtors and auctioneers to make commission on properties with no equity but favorable financing, allow a consumer to move on with credit intact, and improve liquidity in the system.

In the 1980s, foreclosures exploded but price deterioration wasn’t bad. Assumptions of loans saved the market. When interest rates were 17%, people were able to assume better financing. It saved the system.

Bruce also suggests the 90 day seasoning period on properties to be removed so investors can fix houses and sell them more quickly. More to come next week. Thenorrisgroup.com

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Tommy Williams with the National Auctioneers Association #81

Bruce Norris is joined this week by President of the National Auctioneers Association, co-founder of the Williams and Williams Auction Company, and panelist for I Survived Real Estate 2008, Tommy Williams. Bruce and Tommy discuss the extremely volatile past 5 months, the possibility for more unknowns in the coming year, what caused this to happen, innovative financing, homeownership levels, what buyers should have to bring to the table in order to own a home, what would happen if deposits weren’t required at auctions, people taking advantage of government system, HR3221 and some of the benefits, the unintended consequences of HR3221, valuation of properties and how auctions are part of that process, a correct version of an auction and how it brings out true value, overbids during a boom market, why auctioneers get frustrated because they are typically only considered during a downturn, builders releasing phases via auction and the benefits, if Realtors view auctions as partners or competition, how auctions work with Realtors, why auctions aren’t in the MLS, the task force between NAR and NAA, if Tommy can tell from auctions which areas are in trouble, NAA as a vast resource of statistics, how quality holds much more weight than price, if California is getting worse, the two states with the worst declines, ignoring true affordability, how we can do better in the near future, isurvived2008.com

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

An avid cattleman, Williams also owned and operated Bradmar Angus Farms from 1965-85, after which he continued to serve as a herd and genetics consultant for many of the nation's premier Angus cattle breeders.

Williams is a licensed auctioneer and real estate broker in over 20 states, and an active member of the National Association of Realtors.

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Tommy Williams with the National Auctioneers Association 4-4-08 #62

Bruce Norris is joined once again by auction legend, co-founder of Williams and Williams Auctions, and current president of the National Auctioneers Association, Tommy Williams. Bruce and Tommy discuss what the duties are as the president of the National Auctioneer Association, foreign countries and the auction process, the lessons to be learned from foreign countries, the leading foreign auction country, auction cycles and the psychology of acceptance, Tommy’s dream for the auction process, the biggest impediments for the auction method to gain wider acceptance, the possible synergy with Realtors, what the National Auctioneer Association is doing to reach out with the National Association of Realtors, the number one auction category in the United States, what rules or regulations could be put in place to help the auction process, Tommy’s wish to see foreclosure process change, the perception of auctions and how its changed over the years, what the public thinks about auctions and how Ebay has played an important role, shill bidding on Ebay, the benefits to joining the National Auctioneers Association (NAA), the national auction publications, the education process of an auctioneer, how the auction industry self regulates against those that abuse the system, how word of mouth weeds out the bad seeds, rookie mistakes of auctioneers, the importance of understanding value, how the business has changed since the Internet, marketing being the most important ingredient for the auction process, the future for the Williams and Williams auction company. Williamsauction.com

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

An avid cattleman, Williams also owned and operated Bradmar Angus Farms from 1965-85, after which he continued to serve as a herd and genetics consultant for many of the nation's premier Angus cattle breeders.

Williams is a licensed auctioneer and real estate broker in over 20 states, and an active member of the National Association of Realtors.

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Tommy Williams with the National Auctioneers Association 3-29-08 #61

Bruce Norris is joined this week by auction legend, co-founder of Williams and Williams Auctions, and current president of the National Auctioneers Association, Tommy Williams. Bruce and Tommy discuss how Tommy got involved in auctions and his family’s history in the auction business since the 1800s, how the tradition continues in the family, how Williams and Williams auctions are set up, the team members that make auctions possible, on-the-front-yard auctions, why Williams and Williams chooses not to pursue ballroom auctions, why auctions on the lawn helps obtain true market value, dealing with surprises during live auctions, how bad weather actually makes for a better auction, how long the process takes and how efficient the process has become, how government-backed banks are harder to deal with than private institutions, the readiness of Williams and Williams to grow as the market changes, the different types of auctions and which Williams and Williams chooses to use, how a seller is more willing to change what they will take for a property on auction day, true market value and how auctions show the seller the truth, if sellers today are more willing to accept lower offers, why it’s important to have the seller present at auction, problems with old appraisals, shill bidding in current California auctions, when shill bidding is acceptable and what auctioneers should be doing if it’s a practice they choose to pursue, how some states have licensing laws and other’s do not, Tommy’s thoughts on shill bidding, the stigma to builders considering auction, what any seller will need to consider when considering the real estate auction process, the difference between a loved home and an unloved home, auctions during the peak of a boom and how sellers could see even more gains, the marketplace tells the truth, and finally, williamsauction.com.

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

An avid cattleman, Williams also owned and operated Bradmar Angus Farms from 1965-85, after which he continued to serve as a herd and genetics consultant for many of the nation's premier Angus cattle breeders.

Williams is a licensed auctioneer and real estate broker in over 20 states, and an active member of the National Association of Realtors.

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