This week on The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show, Bruce Norris interviews Greg Norris, the property manager and buyer for The Norris Group, and Craig Hill, hard money loan and trust deed investment lead for The Norris Group. Craig, Bruce and Greg discuss some of the inner working of the company, working with a hard money lender, appraisals in the current market, and much more on tis weeks radio show.
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Showing posts with label california hard money. Show all posts
Showing posts with label california hard money. Show all posts
Friday, January 7, 2011
Friday, December 31, 2010
The Norris Group team #207
This week on The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show, Bruce Norris interviews Greg Norris, the property manager and buyer for The Norris Group, and Craig Hill, hard money loan and trust deed investment lead for The Norris Group. Transcription will be available next week.
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Friday, September 17, 2010
Ivan Choi Joins Bruce Norris on the Real Estate Radio Show #192
This week Bruce is joined by current president of REOMac, Ivan Choi. Ivan discusses the difference between a mortgage banker and a mortgage broker, the ease of obtaining funds in the current market, the current state of foreclosure inventory, shadow inventory, fear in the servicing market, and much more.
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Wednesday, November 25, 2009
Craig Hill with The Norris Group #150
Bruce speaks with Craig Hill again regarding hard money loans and trust deed investments at the Norris Group. This week Craig discusses preferred characteristics for a hard money borrower. With over 20 years in the hard money business, Craig has important discernment skills that protects our money sources. The Norris Group only loans in California so The Norris Group offers local insights and prides itself on an excellent track record. Bruce and Craig discuss why The Norris Group does not offer pooled (also known as fractionalized) trust deed investment and why they prefer their one-on-one method and the risk-saving features it offers. Bruce Norris and Craig Hill also discuss the new long term hard money program currently available.
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Friday, November 20, 2009
Craig Hill with The Norris Group #149
This week Bruce Norris is joined by Craig Hill. Craig Hill is The Norris Group's hard money loan officer and California trust deed investments manager. Bruce and Craig talk about things going on in the current market, how they started working together, and the mind set of current investors in the market place. They also discuss real estate investors with an "all-in" attitude and how dangerous it can be in the current market.
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Friday, April 24, 2009
Susie Leivas-Sturner of Leivas Associates #119
Bruce Norris is joined this week by Chief Financial Officer with Leivas and Associates, Susie Leivas-Sturner.
Susie started working in the tax field at 13 years of age. Susie goes into a little detail of the family business and how she got started in the industry. Leivas and Associates does tax returns for individuals, corporations and trusts. Susie sees more audits comings as the State is more cash tight. Susie as an enrolled agent can represent clients during audits.
An Enrolled Agent (EA) is a federally-authorized tax practitioner who has technical expertise in the field of taxation and who is empowered by the U.S. Department of the Treasury to represent taxpayers before all administrative levels of the Internal Revenue Service for audits, collections, and appeals.
The IRS is getting tough as to who they will work with. If you’re not an attorney, enrolled agent, or CPA they won’t want to speak with you. There are different types of audits. Susie describes how the IRS is tracking how many returns the business and she personally accomplishes in a season. Every year the IRS could be looking for different things as red flags.
Bruce asks if a tax preparer pushes the envelope if the IRS could audit their entire clientele. Susie says she does know of cases where that has occurred so it’s important you have a person who knows what they are doing. Susie describes red flags for the IRS including negative taxable income, extremely high business expenses, and anything really out of ratio. The IRS uses computers and then people to check for inconsistencies. A CPT 2000 does not mean a person is being audited.
Bruce asks if there was any significant change this year to policy. Susie says no big stuff but the stimulus bill has changed some things including college credits and automobile purchases. Some got passed during tax season.
Bruce asks how this year has affected her clients. Susie says it’s been a depressing year. People are getting laid off, furloughs, pay cuts, and overtime has been cut. She thinks most Americans are a paycheck away from bankruptcy and we’ve learned to spend too much. She says this year was a very different year than last year.
Bruce asks how this cycle feels compares to the 90s and Susie says this year feels worse. In the 90s, Susie heard issues from mainly businesses. Individuals are really concerned and don’t see an end in sight.
Susie says people 60 and over know how to save money. People who are younger really don’t understand savings and it’s a real issue. Bruce says people confuse home equity with a savings account. Susie says real estate was seen as a check book and that she’s very surprised at how much people had started to pull out of houses.
Susie says people don’t look at the full picture when making purchase decisions. They seem to mostly care about the payment, not about terms. Susie saw many people become second homeowners and almost 100% were financed. Very few people own anything free and clear. Many people are retiring now with major debt. The old way of thinking was to get rid of all debt and then retire. Social Security was meant to be a supplement and around 70% rely on Social Security as their only form of retirement.
Susie says she was expecting the foreclosures to hit sooner and so far her clients haven’t gotten hit so hard. Part of her job is to pick people up so she’s been preparing herself for those conversations. She was ready last season. She got a little this year but not as much as she expected.
Susie says if people have yet to pay their taxes, they need to as soon as possible. Once you file, the IRS is willing to do payment arrangements and it’s really easy. If it’s really bad, she thinks the IRS will probably compromise and negotiate considering the current climate. The ability to pay will probably be more of an issue.
Susie and Bruce talk about people who don’t file for years and the process of going about getting into the system. Susie says the state is more aggressive in going after late payments. Bankruptcies can wipe out debt but it depends. Not all debt is forgivable. Bruce asks about insolvency and how that plays into the IRS.
Susie says Congress made some changes to help homeowners with acquisition debt. The state didn’t do the same. Susie says the every year the amount a senior can make before being taxed changes.
Susie and her team can be reached from their website at leivasandassociates.com. She will join us next week for part two.
In 1990 Susie became enrolled to practice before the Internal Revenue Service and in 2003 became a financial advisor for HD Vest.
Susie’s greatest strength is helping clients understand and feel comfortable with one of life’s ongoing large bills...TAXES. Many people say before meeting Susie going to have their taxes prepared was worse than going to the dentist. Susie helps make the best of one of life’s tough chores.
Susie’s father Richard Leivas started her in the business at the age of thirteen. After completing her education, she and her father became business partners in Leivas Tax & Bookkeeping Service with two locations in Riverside and San Bernardino. In 1992 Leivas Tax and Norton’s Business Service merged, with Leivas acquiring Norton in 1997. Over her career she has demonstrated to clients the tax benefit of retirement planning. After many years of working closely with Jim Kanouse, it made sense to join forces and form Leivas, Kanouse & Associates. Susie was married for the first time in 1999 and spends much of her free time with her husband Bob and her dog Buster in Lake Havasu City. They enjoy the outdoors, boating, and reading, listening to music and spending time with friends.
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Susie started working in the tax field at 13 years of age. Susie goes into a little detail of the family business and how she got started in the industry. Leivas and Associates does tax returns for individuals, corporations and trusts. Susie sees more audits comings as the State is more cash tight. Susie as an enrolled agent can represent clients during audits.
An Enrolled Agent (EA) is a federally-authorized tax practitioner who has technical expertise in the field of taxation and who is empowered by the U.S. Department of the Treasury to represent taxpayers before all administrative levels of the Internal Revenue Service for audits, collections, and appeals.
The IRS is getting tough as to who they will work with. If you’re not an attorney, enrolled agent, or CPA they won’t want to speak with you. There are different types of audits. Susie describes how the IRS is tracking how many returns the business and she personally accomplishes in a season. Every year the IRS could be looking for different things as red flags.
Bruce asks if a tax preparer pushes the envelope if the IRS could audit their entire clientele. Susie says she does know of cases where that has occurred so it’s important you have a person who knows what they are doing. Susie describes red flags for the IRS including negative taxable income, extremely high business expenses, and anything really out of ratio. The IRS uses computers and then people to check for inconsistencies. A CPT 2000 does not mean a person is being audited.
Bruce asks if there was any significant change this year to policy. Susie says no big stuff but the stimulus bill has changed some things including college credits and automobile purchases. Some got passed during tax season.
Bruce asks how this year has affected her clients. Susie says it’s been a depressing year. People are getting laid off, furloughs, pay cuts, and overtime has been cut. She thinks most Americans are a paycheck away from bankruptcy and we’ve learned to spend too much. She says this year was a very different year than last year.
Bruce asks how this cycle feels compares to the 90s and Susie says this year feels worse. In the 90s, Susie heard issues from mainly businesses. Individuals are really concerned and don’t see an end in sight.
Susie says people 60 and over know how to save money. People who are younger really don’t understand savings and it’s a real issue. Bruce says people confuse home equity with a savings account. Susie says real estate was seen as a check book and that she’s very surprised at how much people had started to pull out of houses.
Susie says people don’t look at the full picture when making purchase decisions. They seem to mostly care about the payment, not about terms. Susie saw many people become second homeowners and almost 100% were financed. Very few people own anything free and clear. Many people are retiring now with major debt. The old way of thinking was to get rid of all debt and then retire. Social Security was meant to be a supplement and around 70% rely on Social Security as their only form of retirement.
Susie says she was expecting the foreclosures to hit sooner and so far her clients haven’t gotten hit so hard. Part of her job is to pick people up so she’s been preparing herself for those conversations. She was ready last season. She got a little this year but not as much as she expected.
Susie says if people have yet to pay their taxes, they need to as soon as possible. Once you file, the IRS is willing to do payment arrangements and it’s really easy. If it’s really bad, she thinks the IRS will probably compromise and negotiate considering the current climate. The ability to pay will probably be more of an issue.
Susie and Bruce talk about people who don’t file for years and the process of going about getting into the system. Susie says the state is more aggressive in going after late payments. Bankruptcies can wipe out debt but it depends. Not all debt is forgivable. Bruce asks about insolvency and how that plays into the IRS.
Susie says Congress made some changes to help homeowners with acquisition debt. The state didn’t do the same. Susie says the every year the amount a senior can make before being taxed changes.
Susie and her team can be reached from their website at leivasandassociates.com. She will join us next week for part two.
In 1990 Susie became enrolled to practice before the Internal Revenue Service and in 2003 became a financial advisor for HD Vest.
Susie’s greatest strength is helping clients understand and feel comfortable with one of life’s ongoing large bills...TAXES. Many people say before meeting Susie going to have their taxes prepared was worse than going to the dentist. Susie helps make the best of one of life’s tough chores.
Susie’s father Richard Leivas started her in the business at the age of thirteen. After completing her education, she and her father became business partners in Leivas Tax & Bookkeeping Service with two locations in Riverside and San Bernardino. In 1992 Leivas Tax and Norton’s Business Service merged, with Leivas acquiring Norton in 1997. Over her career she has demonstrated to clients the tax benefit of retirement planning. After many years of working closely with Jim Kanouse, it made sense to join forces and form Leivas, Kanouse & Associates. Susie was married for the first time in 1999 and spends much of her free time with her husband Bob and her dog Buster in Lake Havasu City. They enjoy the outdoors, boating, and reading, listening to music and spending time with friends.
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Friday, January 16, 2009
Appraiser and Investor Rick Solis #105
Bruce Norris is joined this week once again by appraiser and investor, Rick Solis.
Bruce and Rick start by talking about market value. Rick says market value is what a ready, willing, able, and knowledgeable buyer is willing to pay for a property. Bruce asks if this definition is being held up with lenders in today’s market. Rick says that lenders are not. Bruce talks about how real estate auctions do not reflect true market value compared to fixed inventory. The majority of the inventory needs fixing and must be sold in a certain time frame.
Rick says the market is very different from the 90s. In the 90s, Rick says that there used to be a box that said “declining market”. If that box was checked, the deal wouldn’t go through. Now, the lenders will do those transactions but lenders require more comparables. It becomes difficult to find similar inventory. The banks will want to see the appraiser adjust for the market. Appraisals used to be good for 6 months. With a declining market, comparables need to be 60 days or less from the day of funding. Lenders want at least 2, preferable 3, comps within 60 days of funding.
Bruce asks how long appraisals are accurate in today’s market. In some areas, Rick says prices continue to drop quickly so not long. Every area is different. Bruce says in the last 60 days, appraisals are becoming more of an issue. Bruce talks about a recent example of an issue with an appraisal on a property with multiple offers. Bruce asks Rick what will happen if lenders don’t change their stance on valuing properties and creating comps that reflect perfect condition.
Bruce heard recently that lenders are considering doing refinances without appraisals because of the price declines which Rick has heard as well. He thinks that’s an interesting way to solve the issue. Rick says they keep throwing whatever they can at the issue. Rick says they did the same type of things during the Great Depression. Bruce talks about similarities with policies from the Great Depression and now.
Bruce asks if before and after pictures on properties are helpful. Rick says videotaping properties before and after would be a great help but if there are too many repairs they may want to see permits. He says to document all multiple offer situations.
Bruce and Rick then start talking about the principle of substitution. Bruce says there’s a short supply of good inventory. There’s a glut of inventory that needs fixing. Bruce feels bad for appraisers who have to fight for real prices and they have to be careful. Banks are only looking at pictures and don’t really understand what’s happening in the area. Rick takes many more pictures than is required to show banks why prices are where they are at.
Bruce asks about arms-length transactions. Bruce asks about what would happen if The Norris Group carried its own paper and created higher comps. He asks if that would be a conflict because of arms-length transaction rules. Rick discusses the potential issues and uses the example of builders.
Bruce asks what percentage of sales has concessions in the current market. Rick says almost 100% of transactions on properties that are on the market for two weeks or more have concessions although it’s not always easy to figure out what those concessions are. Appraisers don’t always know the concessions.
Bruce asks what percentage is allowed for condition in appraisals. Rick says condition can be about 10%. If you adjust more, it can become and issue. It becomes easy with comparables but more difficult if the data isn’t there to support line item adjustments for over 10%.
If the appraisal comes in wrong in the eyes of the bank, you get blacklisted and there’s a possibility of not getting paid. Rick says review appraisals were not as common when the market was going up. Some did but they were way more lenient. Review appraisers typically do a desk review and never go see the property. They are looking at online information. These review appraisers are typically hired independent contractors.
Bruce asks Rick what he would like to see changed. Rick says not having the lender paying for the appraisal would be better. That way there would be no pressure and more honest appraisals could take place.
Next week is Christopher Thornberg with Beacon Economics.
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Bruce and Rick start by talking about market value. Rick says market value is what a ready, willing, able, and knowledgeable buyer is willing to pay for a property. Bruce asks if this definition is being held up with lenders in today’s market. Rick says that lenders are not. Bruce talks about how real estate auctions do not reflect true market value compared to fixed inventory. The majority of the inventory needs fixing and must be sold in a certain time frame.
Rick says the market is very different from the 90s. In the 90s, Rick says that there used to be a box that said “declining market”. If that box was checked, the deal wouldn’t go through. Now, the lenders will do those transactions but lenders require more comparables. It becomes difficult to find similar inventory. The banks will want to see the appraiser adjust for the market. Appraisals used to be good for 6 months. With a declining market, comparables need to be 60 days or less from the day of funding. Lenders want at least 2, preferable 3, comps within 60 days of funding.
Bruce asks how long appraisals are accurate in today’s market. In some areas, Rick says prices continue to drop quickly so not long. Every area is different. Bruce says in the last 60 days, appraisals are becoming more of an issue. Bruce talks about a recent example of an issue with an appraisal on a property with multiple offers. Bruce asks Rick what will happen if lenders don’t change their stance on valuing properties and creating comps that reflect perfect condition.
Bruce heard recently that lenders are considering doing refinances without appraisals because of the price declines which Rick has heard as well. He thinks that’s an interesting way to solve the issue. Rick says they keep throwing whatever they can at the issue. Rick says they did the same type of things during the Great Depression. Bruce talks about similarities with policies from the Great Depression and now.
Bruce asks if before and after pictures on properties are helpful. Rick says videotaping properties before and after would be a great help but if there are too many repairs they may want to see permits. He says to document all multiple offer situations.
Bruce and Rick then start talking about the principle of substitution. Bruce says there’s a short supply of good inventory. There’s a glut of inventory that needs fixing. Bruce feels bad for appraisers who have to fight for real prices and they have to be careful. Banks are only looking at pictures and don’t really understand what’s happening in the area. Rick takes many more pictures than is required to show banks why prices are where they are at.
Bruce asks about arms-length transactions. Bruce asks about what would happen if The Norris Group carried its own paper and created higher comps. He asks if that would be a conflict because of arms-length transaction rules. Rick discusses the potential issues and uses the example of builders.
Bruce asks what percentage of sales has concessions in the current market. Rick says almost 100% of transactions on properties that are on the market for two weeks or more have concessions although it’s not always easy to figure out what those concessions are. Appraisers don’t always know the concessions.
Bruce asks what percentage is allowed for condition in appraisals. Rick says condition can be about 10%. If you adjust more, it can become and issue. It becomes easy with comparables but more difficult if the data isn’t there to support line item adjustments for over 10%.
If the appraisal comes in wrong in the eyes of the bank, you get blacklisted and there’s a possibility of not getting paid. Rick says review appraisals were not as common when the market was going up. Some did but they were way more lenient. Review appraisers typically do a desk review and never go see the property. They are looking at online information. These review appraisers are typically hired independent contractors.
Bruce asks Rick what he would like to see changed. Rick says not having the lender paying for the appraisal would be better. That way there would be no pressure and more honest appraisals could take place.
Next week is Christopher Thornberg with Beacon Economics.
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Friday, January 9, 2009
Appraiser and Investor Rick Solis #104
Bruce Norris is joined this week by appraiser and investor, Rick Solis.
Rick has been appraising properties since 1989. Rick says it was a perfect time to start because he got to see both cycles. In 1989, you didn’t even need a license. Education, Rick says, has not improved appraisals. Bruce talks about how he got his appraisers license and why. They both say much of the business is street smarts.
Rick got into the business because he purchased a Dave Delgado seminar. He started buying a lot of houses. He realized he needed to know how to evaluate properties.
Bruce asks if appraisers are under pressure to come in at a certain number. Rick says pressure is coming from several sources including agents, buyers, sellers, and banks. From 2004-2006 the pressure was for the appraisers to come in high. Today, banks put appraiser reports through many more hoops. They are looking for something wrong with it and they have review appraisals done. They also use an automated valuation model (AVM) to check numbers. In a down market, the AVM is not an issue. It’s a real problem in an up market. Everyone is just being much more conservative.
Bruce asks Rick how he compares this downturn from the 90s. Rick says this downturn is much worse. There was a more gradual decline over several years in the 90s. Prices are much more erratic in the current market and it varies from month to month.
Rick says areas with lots of new houses, where there are lots of first-time homebuyer inventory, and far out areas seem to have gotten pummeled. Sometimes 60% of the value disappeared. Rick tries to turn down appraisals for irregular products (dirt roads, manufactured homes, etc). It’s very difficult to find comps and arrive at a number.
Rick says in 2009 he expects to see drops in pricing every month for the Inland Empire. Rick says in his area in LA, sales seem to have dropped by 75%. Prices are still coming down there too. Bruce asks Rick what percentage of sales in Victorville were REO. Bruce says 92% of all sales in the area were REO. Reselling in that area would be very difficult. It would be very difficult to get an appraisal too. When 98% are vacant and need work and almost all sales are REO, it’s very difficult to get comps to substantiate a higher price.
Bruce asks what Rick is running into when working with investors. Rick says too many investors are going off the sales price in the MLS. The numbers are incorrect at times because of bad data entry or concessions. Some of the busy REO agents are having assistants enter in the data and they aren’t being careful.
Rick says he uses the MLS but confirms those prices with public record. He uses Real Quest and Dataquick to make sure his numbers are correct. Luckily, data is getting a little better and more complete.
Rick says listings aren’t so much calculated into his appraisals but he does spend more time on pending sales.
Bruce asks if the goal for appraising properties for an investor is different then doing to for retail buyers. Rick says working with buyers is different because the buyer is dictating the price. It becomes its own comp. The investor purchase is more difficult.
Tune in next week as the conversation continue.
Rick is the senior appraiser at Ace Appraisals. Rick has been a full time real estate appraiser since 1989 and a HUD approved appraiser since 1993. He has extensive investor and appraisal experience in residential real estate in the Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Riverside, and Orange County areas.
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Rick has been appraising properties since 1989. Rick says it was a perfect time to start because he got to see both cycles. In 1989, you didn’t even need a license. Education, Rick says, has not improved appraisals. Bruce talks about how he got his appraisers license and why. They both say much of the business is street smarts.
Rick got into the business because he purchased a Dave Delgado seminar. He started buying a lot of houses. He realized he needed to know how to evaluate properties.
Bruce asks if appraisers are under pressure to come in at a certain number. Rick says pressure is coming from several sources including agents, buyers, sellers, and banks. From 2004-2006 the pressure was for the appraisers to come in high. Today, banks put appraiser reports through many more hoops. They are looking for something wrong with it and they have review appraisals done. They also use an automated valuation model (AVM) to check numbers. In a down market, the AVM is not an issue. It’s a real problem in an up market. Everyone is just being much more conservative.
Bruce asks Rick how he compares this downturn from the 90s. Rick says this downturn is much worse. There was a more gradual decline over several years in the 90s. Prices are much more erratic in the current market and it varies from month to month.
Rick says areas with lots of new houses, where there are lots of first-time homebuyer inventory, and far out areas seem to have gotten pummeled. Sometimes 60% of the value disappeared. Rick tries to turn down appraisals for irregular products (dirt roads, manufactured homes, etc). It’s very difficult to find comps and arrive at a number.
Rick says in 2009 he expects to see drops in pricing every month for the Inland Empire. Rick says in his area in LA, sales seem to have dropped by 75%. Prices are still coming down there too. Bruce asks Rick what percentage of sales in Victorville were REO. Bruce says 92% of all sales in the area were REO. Reselling in that area would be very difficult. It would be very difficult to get an appraisal too. When 98% are vacant and need work and almost all sales are REO, it’s very difficult to get comps to substantiate a higher price.
Bruce asks what Rick is running into when working with investors. Rick says too many investors are going off the sales price in the MLS. The numbers are incorrect at times because of bad data entry or concessions. Some of the busy REO agents are having assistants enter in the data and they aren’t being careful.
Rick says he uses the MLS but confirms those prices with public record. He uses Real Quest and Dataquick to make sure his numbers are correct. Luckily, data is getting a little better and more complete.
Rick says listings aren’t so much calculated into his appraisals but he does spend more time on pending sales.
Bruce asks if the goal for appraising properties for an investor is different then doing to for retail buyers. Rick says working with buyers is different because the buyer is dictating the price. It becomes its own comp. The investor purchase is more difficult.
Tune in next week as the conversation continue.
Rick is the senior appraiser at Ace Appraisals. Rick has been a full time real estate appraiser since 1989 and a HUD approved appraiser since 1993. He has extensive investor and appraisal experience in residential real estate in the Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Riverside, and Orange County areas.
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Saturday, January 3, 2009
Craig Hill with The Norris Group #103
Bruce Norris is joined once again by Craig Hill (hard money loan officer at The Norris Group) and Greg Norris (full-time property buyer for The Norris Group.
Bruce asks Craig about calls from first time investors purchasing homes with structural damage and mold. Craig says he steers newer investors with no construction background away from heavy fixer uppers. Houses don’t have to be a complete disaster. You don’t want their first house to be a bad experience.
Bruce asks Greg what he is doing differently from one year ago to buy and sell properties. Greg says he hasn’t changed that much but has gotten more efficient. At the very beginning he was doing cheaper repairs but now there’s a little more upgrades. Instead of linoleum we use tile in some areas and instead of tile on counters he puts in granite. We need to be the best on the market.
Realtors that deal with buyers are saying great things. One in particular isn’t wasting any more of her time on REOs and has decided to only show our homes because of the quality.
Greg says price and condition are really important in this market. Greg says the higher end listings have disappeared and TNG is typically the highest. Inventory is very low. Even though The Norris Group is the highest, the homes still sell. Consumers don’t want to deal with the fixers and want a nice home.
Appraisals are a bit of a problem. Greg says he’s having to set a top level. Buyers are wanting to see a top payment to be $1200-$1400 per month which is similar to rent if not a little less. Greg talks about the staging of the homes and how it helps with presentation. It helps online showings.
Bruce and Craig talk about the hold ups with selling. Craig says financing and appraisers are the biggest issues. There seems to be willing buyers for fixed homes. Craig says homes are being fixed better than they were in the 90s. More is being spent.
Craig is having to tell people not to chase the market and get very realistic on price. He often calls clients if a loan has been going more than five months. He wants to make sure the investor gets to the finish line. It’s difficult when prices are declining.
Bruce asks Greg about appraisal issues. Greg says the last 30 days has been much more difficult. Banks are so scared they are overcompensating. Appraisals over one month are considered old. Three months is considered too old.
Bruce asks about FHA transactions and the 180 day rule. Greg says he’s never been asked for a second appraisal. Bruce thinks maybe the review appraisal is the second appraisal. Bruce says that some of these appraisers are sitting 500 miles away.
Bruce asks Craig about loans that can’t seem to close. Craig says there is willingness on the side of the buyer but it’s the financing piece that’s causing problems for California real estate transactions. The checks and re-checks of the buyers stall closings.
Bruce asks Craig about the many new trust deed investors The Norris Group has had come on in the last 90 days and what makes them feel secure about doing investments. Craig says perceived safety is key. Craig makes small loans amounts, the investor is a special borrower, and typically the worst case would be the money lender ends up with a property.
Bruce brings up the fact The Norris Group was very conservative over the past few years so some of TNG’s main money investors placed their money elsewhere. Bruce asks about some of the uh-oh stories Craig has heard about. Craig says money investors are attracted to the return and sometimes forget there’s risk, especially if they had been working with TNG who has a very good record.. He told some to be patient and that TNG would be busy again soon. Some of these investors didn’t wait, went elsewhere, and now have a small portfolio of non-paying loans.
Bruce asks Greg what the secrets are to keep good contractors interested in doing our work. Greg says that it’s important to be easy to deal with. We don’t stand in their way and we have work. Consistent work is a big deal.
Bruce asks if there’s red flags when dealing with contractors. Greg says when contractors ask for money before work is done it’s a red flag. Greg typically pays every two weeks. The Norris Group pays for the parts. TNG knows what parts we want installed and we’re really just contracting labor. Greg says contractors resisted his method of buying all the parts at first but later said they liked the system. It allows them to have less money out of pocket and actually take on more jobs. Home Depot was difficult to work with at first but now after dealing with them for a year, it’s really easy and everything happens over email.
Craig says repairs is still a big hurdle but they get used to it. Sometimes Craig forwards them before and after photos and videos of an investor’s work. He’s had money investors turn down a project but then they see before and after videos of an investor’s work and they sign up for several. Once they see what investors do, they feel more comfortable.
Craig talks about holds for repair money. Most houses are needing major repairs so almost all loans have money held for renovation. Red flags for Craig are investors who want money before repairs are finished. Draws are given after things are completed. This protects the money investor and also makes sure the investor stays on track.
Bruce asks Greg how he handles all the showings of the properties since he lists all of the properties for The Norris Group. Greg says he doesn’t show them at all. If interested buyers call, Greg used to tell them to call their local agent after figuring what they were looking for. Greg wants buyers to be pre-qualified and doesn’t have a time deal all of that. He really relies on buyers agents.
Bruce asks Greg how we protect ourselves during escrow. Greg says he does all of his due diligence up front now to make sure he doesn’t go into escrow with someone who can’t close. He wants all buyers to be pre-qualified and not just pre-approved.
Craig Hill has been in the hard money loan business for over 25 years. Greg Norris has been working as the Norris Group's full time property buyer for going on two years. More information about The Norris Group at thenorrisgroup.com and tngproperties.com
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Bruce asks Craig about calls from first time investors purchasing homes with structural damage and mold. Craig says he steers newer investors with no construction background away from heavy fixer uppers. Houses don’t have to be a complete disaster. You don’t want their first house to be a bad experience.
Bruce asks Greg what he is doing differently from one year ago to buy and sell properties. Greg says he hasn’t changed that much but has gotten more efficient. At the very beginning he was doing cheaper repairs but now there’s a little more upgrades. Instead of linoleum we use tile in some areas and instead of tile on counters he puts in granite. We need to be the best on the market.
Realtors that deal with buyers are saying great things. One in particular isn’t wasting any more of her time on REOs and has decided to only show our homes because of the quality.
Greg says price and condition are really important in this market. Greg says the higher end listings have disappeared and TNG is typically the highest. Inventory is very low. Even though The Norris Group is the highest, the homes still sell. Consumers don’t want to deal with the fixers and want a nice home.
Appraisals are a bit of a problem. Greg says he’s having to set a top level. Buyers are wanting to see a top payment to be $1200-$1400 per month which is similar to rent if not a little less. Greg talks about the staging of the homes and how it helps with presentation. It helps online showings.
Bruce and Craig talk about the hold ups with selling. Craig says financing and appraisers are the biggest issues. There seems to be willing buyers for fixed homes. Craig says homes are being fixed better than they were in the 90s. More is being spent.
Craig is having to tell people not to chase the market and get very realistic on price. He often calls clients if a loan has been going more than five months. He wants to make sure the investor gets to the finish line. It’s difficult when prices are declining.
Bruce asks Greg about appraisal issues. Greg says the last 30 days has been much more difficult. Banks are so scared they are overcompensating. Appraisals over one month are considered old. Three months is considered too old.
Bruce asks about FHA transactions and the 180 day rule. Greg says he’s never been asked for a second appraisal. Bruce thinks maybe the review appraisal is the second appraisal. Bruce says that some of these appraisers are sitting 500 miles away.
Bruce asks Craig about loans that can’t seem to close. Craig says there is willingness on the side of the buyer but it’s the financing piece that’s causing problems for California real estate transactions. The checks and re-checks of the buyers stall closings.
Bruce asks Craig about the many new trust deed investors The Norris Group has had come on in the last 90 days and what makes them feel secure about doing investments. Craig says perceived safety is key. Craig makes small loans amounts, the investor is a special borrower, and typically the worst case would be the money lender ends up with a property.
Bruce brings up the fact The Norris Group was very conservative over the past few years so some of TNG’s main money investors placed their money elsewhere. Bruce asks about some of the uh-oh stories Craig has heard about. Craig says money investors are attracted to the return and sometimes forget there’s risk, especially if they had been working with TNG who has a very good record.. He told some to be patient and that TNG would be busy again soon. Some of these investors didn’t wait, went elsewhere, and now have a small portfolio of non-paying loans.
Bruce asks Greg what the secrets are to keep good contractors interested in doing our work. Greg says that it’s important to be easy to deal with. We don’t stand in their way and we have work. Consistent work is a big deal.
Bruce asks if there’s red flags when dealing with contractors. Greg says when contractors ask for money before work is done it’s a red flag. Greg typically pays every two weeks. The Norris Group pays for the parts. TNG knows what parts we want installed and we’re really just contracting labor. Greg says contractors resisted his method of buying all the parts at first but later said they liked the system. It allows them to have less money out of pocket and actually take on more jobs. Home Depot was difficult to work with at first but now after dealing with them for a year, it’s really easy and everything happens over email.
Craig says repairs is still a big hurdle but they get used to it. Sometimes Craig forwards them before and after photos and videos of an investor’s work. He’s had money investors turn down a project but then they see before and after videos of an investor’s work and they sign up for several. Once they see what investors do, they feel more comfortable.
Craig talks about holds for repair money. Most houses are needing major repairs so almost all loans have money held for renovation. Red flags for Craig are investors who want money before repairs are finished. Draws are given after things are completed. This protects the money investor and also makes sure the investor stays on track.
Bruce asks Greg how he handles all the showings of the properties since he lists all of the properties for The Norris Group. Greg says he doesn’t show them at all. If interested buyers call, Greg used to tell them to call their local agent after figuring what they were looking for. Greg wants buyers to be pre-qualified and doesn’t have a time deal all of that. He really relies on buyers agents.
Bruce asks Greg how we protect ourselves during escrow. Greg says he does all of his due diligence up front now to make sure he doesn’t go into escrow with someone who can’t close. He wants all buyers to be pre-qualified and not just pre-approved.
Craig Hill has been in the hard money loan business for over 25 years. Greg Norris has been working as the Norris Group's full time property buyer for going on two years. More information about The Norris Group at thenorrisgroup.com and tngproperties.com
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Friday, December 26, 2008
Craig Hill with The Norris Group #102
Bruce Norris is joined this week by the loan officer for the Norris Group, Craig Hill, and the full-time property buyer for the Norris Group, Greg Norris.
Bruce asks Craig about how long he’s been in the hard money loan business and who the typical borrower was when he first started. Craig talks about buyers he used to work with and how it changed 20 years ago because of rule changes. Craig then talks about how he started working with Bruce and how it made much more sense to lend to investors. Craig says the investor has made not only more sense but are better at making payments.
Bruce then chats with Greg about his past year and a half as a property buyer. Greg talks about his early experience watching trustee sale buyers and what they liked to buy. Greg talks about loans available for investors and how conventional loans are currently at a liit of four.
Bruce asks Craig why lenders are hesitant to lend to investors. Craig says lenders have a false perception that investors are bad to lend to. An investor has more money down and has just as many reason to stay in a home as an owner occupant but lenders don’t want to be involved in that transaction.
Greg talks about how long ago he started making offers straight out of the MLS. Greg says making offers straight out of the MLS was not successful in early 2008 as the lenders wouldn’t budge. In the first six months of 2008, zero deals came out of the MLS, most were coming from auction. Now towards the end of the year, almost all came from the MLS that The Norris Group purchased. Now, The Norris Group is buying about 5% of the offers made.
Craig talks about last minute funding calls and why these investors are in a rush. Craig goes into detail why people with money make these investor loans. Craig says our main target market are seeing loans being made of $85,000 to $120,000 where last year those same homes were being bought for $200,000. There’s been a big change in price. Money sources have become a little nervous.
The perception right now is everyone wants a cookie cutter deal. Everyone wants a $100,000 loan and money sources do not want to be aggressive. Those that want larger loans or are buying in areas out of comfort zone areas will need more in money in the transaction. Money sources in Northern California are wanting to invest in smaller loan amounts and also invest in Southern California where they feel TNG performs best.
Most hard money loans have to have investors put more money into the deals right now. Different sources have gone out the window because of the market.
Bruce asks Greg what he is looking for now as he is making offers on things inside the MLS. Greg says he is looking for anything within a $30,000 range where he thinks he can buy it and make a profit. Sometimes these are short sales and sometimes his offers don’t get accepted for months. Sometimes he gets deals because other investors fall out and he’s the only one left.
At this point, Greg is not being able to talk with people directly often. Right now, banks seem to be dictating to REO agents where before there was much more relationship involved. Greg says he sometimes gets no reaction from REO agents when making offers. Every agent reacts different. Some email when we didn’t get a deal and some do.
Bruce says between 2000-2006 most of our hard money loans came from investors purchasing from people directly. Craig says it’s now changed almost completely where 100% are bought out of the MLS, through auctions, and occasionally from trustee sale and probate. The MLS at this point is creating the most real estate opportunities.
Out of the 40 properties Greg has purchased this year, 30% of the deals were auctions, the rest were from the MLS. Greg is not looking forward to attending auctions. It’s a lot of work for sometimes no results. REDC and Hudson and Marshall have been mixed this year.
Craig says the inventory he is making hard money loans on is different form the 90s. In the 90s there were more 30s and 40s built home located in San Bernardino and Moreno Valley. This time, the investors are being savvier. Investors are buying a little bigger homes and newer homes. The inventory is much better.
Craig talks about why some investors get frustrated because they can’t participate in our money program. Credit issues aren’t the biggest issue. Liquidity is just very important right now. Most people don’t mind hearing “no” because we’re trying to set them up for success. Some investors just don’t understand the process.
Bruce talks about deals Craig turns down and investors coming back later thanking him for now allowing them into the deal. Craig finds that very gratifying. More next week.
Craig Hill has been in the hard money loan business for over 25 years. Greg Norris has been working as the Norris Group's full time property buyer for going on two years. More information about The Norris Group at thenorrisgroup.com and tngproperties.com.
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Bruce asks Craig about how long he’s been in the hard money loan business and who the typical borrower was when he first started. Craig talks about buyers he used to work with and how it changed 20 years ago because of rule changes. Craig then talks about how he started working with Bruce and how it made much more sense to lend to investors. Craig says the investor has made not only more sense but are better at making payments.
Bruce then chats with Greg about his past year and a half as a property buyer. Greg talks about his early experience watching trustee sale buyers and what they liked to buy. Greg talks about loans available for investors and how conventional loans are currently at a liit of four.
Bruce asks Craig why lenders are hesitant to lend to investors. Craig says lenders have a false perception that investors are bad to lend to. An investor has more money down and has just as many reason to stay in a home as an owner occupant but lenders don’t want to be involved in that transaction.
Greg talks about how long ago he started making offers straight out of the MLS. Greg says making offers straight out of the MLS was not successful in early 2008 as the lenders wouldn’t budge. In the first six months of 2008, zero deals came out of the MLS, most were coming from auction. Now towards the end of the year, almost all came from the MLS that The Norris Group purchased. Now, The Norris Group is buying about 5% of the offers made.
Craig talks about last minute funding calls and why these investors are in a rush. Craig goes into detail why people with money make these investor loans. Craig says our main target market are seeing loans being made of $85,000 to $120,000 where last year those same homes were being bought for $200,000. There’s been a big change in price. Money sources have become a little nervous.
The perception right now is everyone wants a cookie cutter deal. Everyone wants a $100,000 loan and money sources do not want to be aggressive. Those that want larger loans or are buying in areas out of comfort zone areas will need more in money in the transaction. Money sources in Northern California are wanting to invest in smaller loan amounts and also invest in Southern California where they feel TNG performs best.
Most hard money loans have to have investors put more money into the deals right now. Different sources have gone out the window because of the market.
Bruce asks Greg what he is looking for now as he is making offers on things inside the MLS. Greg says he is looking for anything within a $30,000 range where he thinks he can buy it and make a profit. Sometimes these are short sales and sometimes his offers don’t get accepted for months. Sometimes he gets deals because other investors fall out and he’s the only one left.
At this point, Greg is not being able to talk with people directly often. Right now, banks seem to be dictating to REO agents where before there was much more relationship involved. Greg says he sometimes gets no reaction from REO agents when making offers. Every agent reacts different. Some email when we didn’t get a deal and some do.
Bruce says between 2000-2006 most of our hard money loans came from investors purchasing from people directly. Craig says it’s now changed almost completely where 100% are bought out of the MLS, through auctions, and occasionally from trustee sale and probate. The MLS at this point is creating the most real estate opportunities.
Out of the 40 properties Greg has purchased this year, 30% of the deals were auctions, the rest were from the MLS. Greg is not looking forward to attending auctions. It’s a lot of work for sometimes no results. REDC and Hudson and Marshall have been mixed this year.
Craig says the inventory he is making hard money loans on is different form the 90s. In the 90s there were more 30s and 40s built home located in San Bernardino and Moreno Valley. This time, the investors are being savvier. Investors are buying a little bigger homes and newer homes. The inventory is much better.
Craig talks about why some investors get frustrated because they can’t participate in our money program. Credit issues aren’t the biggest issue. Liquidity is just very important right now. Most people don’t mind hearing “no” because we’re trying to set them up for success. Some investors just don’t understand the process.
Bruce talks about deals Craig turns down and investors coming back later thanking him for now allowing them into the deal. Craig finds that very gratifying. More next week.
Craig Hill has been in the hard money loan business for over 25 years. Greg Norris has been working as the Norris Group's full time property buyer for going on two years. More information about The Norris Group at thenorrisgroup.com and tngproperties.com.
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Friday, December 19, 2008
Stephen Blank of the Urban Land Institute #101
Bruce Norris is joined this week by the Senior Resident Fellow of Finance for the Urban Land Institute, Stephen Blank.
Bruce asked about the ULI Emerging Trends report and how long it’s been around. Stephen says it’s been around for 30 years and has always been national in scope. The report has gone through different partnerships but the report is now a joint venture between the Urban Land Institute and Price Waterhouse Cooper. The report interviews 100s of people in the real estate business and compiles their opinions. Interviewees include developers, private and public owners, advisors, institutional investors, service providers and lenders.
Stephen says the people that were interviewed in 2007 actually said they were expecting 2008 to be difficult. Emerging Trends is unique because of the process and the one-on-one interview process. These interviews tend to be very frank in nature. There is one writer and three editors to help put the report together. The real estate industry has been very supportive in being involved in this report.
Bruce asks Stephen where the blame is in his opinion. Stephen says there was a period of unparalleled liquidity. With that liquidity came an increasing need for income-producing assets and increased competition to lend money so interest rates were forced to low levels. Increased liquidity increased leverage pushing down rates of return.
The subprime market was unregulated and obviously became an issue. Mortgage bankers took these loans and then passed them on to Wall Street. Some argue the models that were used were too old and relied to heavily on ratings. There was a failure to do due diligence and it’s created a big mess. People ended up day trading condos.
Bruce says there’s been some confusion between investor and speculator. Now, we’ve assured ourselves the downturn because the investors are limited to the number of loans. Investors can’t 1031 exchange and investors can’t buy rentals due to limits put in place by lending institutions. Purchase prices are being driven down even further because of this issue and the government isn’t addressing it at this time.
Bruce asks if Stephen thinks the residential problem will move to commercial and if it will be as severe. Stephen says he doesn’t think they’re related and that an economic downturn needs to happen. Commercial is a lagging indicator. Residential could cause a downturn in the economy which would then spill over to commercial. Stephen says we didn’t build as much so we’re not going to have over supply meeting under demand like the last down market. Only some areas like Las Vegas and Florida will have issues because of over building.
Bruce asks if he sees commercial lenders taking back a glut of properties in the coming years. Stephen sees sharp increases in foreclosures for loans adjusting in 2009-2010. The loan-to-value ratios are going to be an issue unless their income has increased a great deal. Bruce and Stephen discuss if lenders could leave a loan in place to avoid taking back a building, also known as performing non-performing loans. The debt is still being paid. Lenders, if they can, would rather nurse these along until the market improves. Not all lenders can do that unfortunately.
Bruce asks if commercial lenders did the same kind of stated income programs that we saw in residential. Stephen says that as competition increased, banks started looking at other factors to base loan amounts on. Reserves were lowered. If the markets had continued to go up, the property could afford this new method. In a decline, it’s an issue.
Stephen sees cap rates going up. 15-20% price decline could occur because the cap rates are changing. Not as much personal guarantees are on commercial. Moving forward from now, more lenders are requiring personal guarantees.
Historically loans had an amortization with ten year term assuming a 25 year amortization period. In ten years you would historically amortize 12-13% of the loan which added protection for the lender, even if prices declined. As the market was more competitive, amortization period was eliminated and the loans were interest only. As these are refinanced, no equity exists.
Bruce asks about unemployment and commercial. Stephen says it will be an issue and vacancies will increase. Declining lease rates will also be an issue. Stephen says REITs are not originators of loans but purchase already existing debt. They may originate mezzanine loans but are not conventional lenders. REITs are owners of income producing properties. Primary lenders are commercial banks (40% of markets), insurance companies (20% of market), and commercial mortgage-backed securities (40% of market). Stephen says that the mortgage backed system is on life support. Insurance agencies are a major source now but it’s taking more time and they have the pick of the market.
For more information on the Urban Land Institute, visit uli.org.
Stephen R. Blank joined ULI-the Urban Land Institute (ULI) in December 1998 as Senior Resident Fellow, Finance. His primary responsibilities include: expanding ULI’s real estate capital markets information and education programs; authoring real estate capital market commentary for ULI’s web site (www.uli.org); participating as a principal researcher and adviser for the Emerging Trends in Real Estate series of publications; researching and authoring papers and articles on finance issues for Urban Land; and organizing and participating in real estate equity and debt capital markets programs at ULI’s Fall and Spring meetings, the McCoy Symposium on Real Estate Finance, District Council meetings, and ULI’s European, Asian, and Latin American Conferences, as well as participating in real estate industry meetings, seminars, and conferences.
Prior to joining ULI, Mr. Blank served from December 1993 to November 1998 as Managing Director, Real Estate Investment Banking of CIBC World Markets, the successor to Oppenheimer & Co., Inc. His responsibilities included: structuring, underwriting, and executing corporate financings including initial public offerings of common and preferred shares, unsecured debentures, and convertible bonds; property acquisitions, dispositions, and financing; and financial advisory services including mergers and acquisitions, corporate restructurings, and recapitalizations.
Prior to joining Oppenheimer & Co., Inc., Mr. Blank served from February 1989 to November 1993 as Managing Director of Cushman & Wakefield, Inc.’s Real Estate Corporate Finance Department, where he was responsible for property acquisitions, dispositions, and financings, as well as providing financial advisory services including mergers and acquisitions, restructurings, and recapitalizations.
From August 1979 to January 1989, Mr. Blank served as Managing Director, Real Estate Investment Banking, of Kidder, Peabody & Co., Inc. where his responsibilities included property acquisitions and dispositions, placement of mortgage financing, financial advisory services, and corporate financings. Additionally, Mr. Blank served as President of KP Realty Advisers, Inc., the firm’s real estate investment advisory subsidiary.
From August 1973 to July 1979, Mr. Blank was a Vice President, Corporate Finance, of Bache & Co., Incorporated, where he was responsible for transaction origination, due diligence, and structuring, marketing and closing, and post-offering supervision of SEC-registered and privately placed direct investments in real estate and other industries.
Mr. Blank is a member of The American Society of Real Estate Counselors (CRE designation), the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts, and ULI-the Urban Land Institute, and serves as a member of the board of directors and Chair, Audit Committee, of MFA Mortgage Investments, Inc., a member of the board of directors and the Audit Committee of Home Properties, Inc., and is a member of the board of trustees of Ramco-Gershenson Properties Trust where he serves as the Board’s Lead Trustee and Chair, Audit Committee. Additionally, Mr. Blank is a member of the Advisory Board of the Real Estate Research Institute, the editorial board of the Journal of Asia-Pacific Real Estate, and the Editorial Board of RERC Industry Outlook, a publication of the Real Estate Research Corporation. Further, Mr. Blank acts as ULI’s representative to the Green Building Finance Consortium.
Mr. Blank has participated as a Guest Lecturer at the Harvard University Graduate School of Design Advanced Management Development Program, the Boston College Graduate School of Business Administration, and the Cornell University Program in Real Estate.
Mr. Blank received his B.A. degree from Syracuse University and was awarded a M.B.A. degree from Adelphi University.
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Bruce asked about the ULI Emerging Trends report and how long it’s been around. Stephen says it’s been around for 30 years and has always been national in scope. The report has gone through different partnerships but the report is now a joint venture between the Urban Land Institute and Price Waterhouse Cooper. The report interviews 100s of people in the real estate business and compiles their opinions. Interviewees include developers, private and public owners, advisors, institutional investors, service providers and lenders.
Stephen says the people that were interviewed in 2007 actually said they were expecting 2008 to be difficult. Emerging Trends is unique because of the process and the one-on-one interview process. These interviews tend to be very frank in nature. There is one writer and three editors to help put the report together. The real estate industry has been very supportive in being involved in this report.
Bruce asks Stephen where the blame is in his opinion. Stephen says there was a period of unparalleled liquidity. With that liquidity came an increasing need for income-producing assets and increased competition to lend money so interest rates were forced to low levels. Increased liquidity increased leverage pushing down rates of return.
The subprime market was unregulated and obviously became an issue. Mortgage bankers took these loans and then passed them on to Wall Street. Some argue the models that were used were too old and relied to heavily on ratings. There was a failure to do due diligence and it’s created a big mess. People ended up day trading condos.
Bruce says there’s been some confusion between investor and speculator. Now, we’ve assured ourselves the downturn because the investors are limited to the number of loans. Investors can’t 1031 exchange and investors can’t buy rentals due to limits put in place by lending institutions. Purchase prices are being driven down even further because of this issue and the government isn’t addressing it at this time.
Bruce asks if Stephen thinks the residential problem will move to commercial and if it will be as severe. Stephen says he doesn’t think they’re related and that an economic downturn needs to happen. Commercial is a lagging indicator. Residential could cause a downturn in the economy which would then spill over to commercial. Stephen says we didn’t build as much so we’re not going to have over supply meeting under demand like the last down market. Only some areas like Las Vegas and Florida will have issues because of over building.
Bruce asks if he sees commercial lenders taking back a glut of properties in the coming years. Stephen sees sharp increases in foreclosures for loans adjusting in 2009-2010. The loan-to-value ratios are going to be an issue unless their income has increased a great deal. Bruce and Stephen discuss if lenders could leave a loan in place to avoid taking back a building, also known as performing non-performing loans. The debt is still being paid. Lenders, if they can, would rather nurse these along until the market improves. Not all lenders can do that unfortunately.
Bruce asks if commercial lenders did the same kind of stated income programs that we saw in residential. Stephen says that as competition increased, banks started looking at other factors to base loan amounts on. Reserves were lowered. If the markets had continued to go up, the property could afford this new method. In a decline, it’s an issue.
Stephen sees cap rates going up. 15-20% price decline could occur because the cap rates are changing. Not as much personal guarantees are on commercial. Moving forward from now, more lenders are requiring personal guarantees.
Historically loans had an amortization with ten year term assuming a 25 year amortization period. In ten years you would historically amortize 12-13% of the loan which added protection for the lender, even if prices declined. As the market was more competitive, amortization period was eliminated and the loans were interest only. As these are refinanced, no equity exists.
Bruce asks about unemployment and commercial. Stephen says it will be an issue and vacancies will increase. Declining lease rates will also be an issue. Stephen says REITs are not originators of loans but purchase already existing debt. They may originate mezzanine loans but are not conventional lenders. REITs are owners of income producing properties. Primary lenders are commercial banks (40% of markets), insurance companies (20% of market), and commercial mortgage-backed securities (40% of market). Stephen says that the mortgage backed system is on life support. Insurance agencies are a major source now but it’s taking more time and they have the pick of the market.
For more information on the Urban Land Institute, visit uli.org.
Stephen R. Blank joined ULI-the Urban Land Institute (ULI) in December 1998 as Senior Resident Fellow, Finance. His primary responsibilities include: expanding ULI’s real estate capital markets information and education programs; authoring real estate capital market commentary for ULI’s web site (www.uli.org); participating as a principal researcher and adviser for the Emerging Trends in Real Estate series of publications; researching and authoring papers and articles on finance issues for Urban Land; and organizing and participating in real estate equity and debt capital markets programs at ULI’s Fall and Spring meetings, the McCoy Symposium on Real Estate Finance, District Council meetings, and ULI’s European, Asian, and Latin American Conferences, as well as participating in real estate industry meetings, seminars, and conferences.
Prior to joining ULI, Mr. Blank served from December 1993 to November 1998 as Managing Director, Real Estate Investment Banking of CIBC World Markets, the successor to Oppenheimer & Co., Inc. His responsibilities included: structuring, underwriting, and executing corporate financings including initial public offerings of common and preferred shares, unsecured debentures, and convertible bonds; property acquisitions, dispositions, and financing; and financial advisory services including mergers and acquisitions, corporate restructurings, and recapitalizations.
Prior to joining Oppenheimer & Co., Inc., Mr. Blank served from February 1989 to November 1993 as Managing Director of Cushman & Wakefield, Inc.’s Real Estate Corporate Finance Department, where he was responsible for property acquisitions, dispositions, and financings, as well as providing financial advisory services including mergers and acquisitions, restructurings, and recapitalizations.
From August 1979 to January 1989, Mr. Blank served as Managing Director, Real Estate Investment Banking, of Kidder, Peabody & Co., Inc. where his responsibilities included property acquisitions and dispositions, placement of mortgage financing, financial advisory services, and corporate financings. Additionally, Mr. Blank served as President of KP Realty Advisers, Inc., the firm’s real estate investment advisory subsidiary.
From August 1973 to July 1979, Mr. Blank was a Vice President, Corporate Finance, of Bache & Co., Incorporated, where he was responsible for transaction origination, due diligence, and structuring, marketing and closing, and post-offering supervision of SEC-registered and privately placed direct investments in real estate and other industries.
Mr. Blank is a member of The American Society of Real Estate Counselors (CRE designation), the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts, and ULI-the Urban Land Institute, and serves as a member of the board of directors and Chair, Audit Committee, of MFA Mortgage Investments, Inc., a member of the board of directors and the Audit Committee of Home Properties, Inc., and is a member of the board of trustees of Ramco-Gershenson Properties Trust where he serves as the Board’s Lead Trustee and Chair, Audit Committee. Additionally, Mr. Blank is a member of the Advisory Board of the Real Estate Research Institute, the editorial board of the Journal of Asia-Pacific Real Estate, and the Editorial Board of RERC Industry Outlook, a publication of the Real Estate Research Corporation. Further, Mr. Blank acts as ULI’s representative to the Green Building Finance Consortium.
Mr. Blank has participated as a Guest Lecturer at the Harvard University Graduate School of Design Advanced Management Development Program, the Boston College Graduate School of Business Administration, and the Cornell University Program in Real Estate.
Mr. Blank received his B.A. degree from Syracuse University and was awarded a M.B.A. degree from Adelphi University.
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Friday, November 21, 2008
Inland Empire Economist John Husing #97
Bruce Norris is joined once again by Inland Empire Economist and Specialist John Husing.
Bruce Norris mentions that The Norris Group is now ready to start purchasing properties with the intent to hold them as rentals. Bruce says we’re buying at 28% of what the lender was owed.
John takes Moreno Valley as an example of what happened in the last cycle with rentals. The injection of rentals in areas that were traditionally owner occupied caused problems. Rentals are generally not as well cared for as owner occupied properties in the area. Home values go down because of this. In areas dominated by rentals, calls for police soar. Soon turnover increases as renters look for the best deals and there’s soon a rent war. Side effects of too many rentals can cause many issues. John says Moreno Valley was destroyed by HUD in the last cycle because they didn’t even think about the effects to the communities.
In the stabilization act, money has been given to cities to help stop this issue. Cities can negotiate prices in bulk and then double escrow the homes at certain prices over to construction firms to bring them back to nice homes. They then sell these homes to qualified first time home buyers. San Bernardino did this in the last cycle. 90% of the people who purchased those homes were still in 10 years later.
Bruce mentions that homeownership levels got too high and that more rentals will be a natural conclusion. John thinks it’s more of a pricing question. If prices got down to a level that’s affordable, people will buy. He says California has never built enough homes for its population.
John says that demand for homes is accelerating greatly. Unfortunately, the supply of foreclosures is still coming in great quantity which continues to bring down prices. John feels the only real solution is to get the principal down.
Bruce says Riverside is one of the possible hot spots once this all turns around. John says the Inland region has more construction dirt available then other counties. Over the next 25 years, Southern California will add 6 million people. Orange County and San Diego are built out or zoned out of being able to build. LA is in a similar situation. Once we get through this downturn, the Inland region has tremendous growth opportunity.
Bruce says that people would rather be in California then many other states. For the next couple of years, people from other states will start to recognize the opportunity to move to California and be making the same payment or less and be able to live in a better climate. Bruce thinks we’ll see massive in migration. John says he too thinks people will be looking at California as a place to retire.
Bruce talks about how he got to Riverside and the massive growth that’s taken place. John explains the three stage growth process. By the late 70s, Riverside developers started developing in the area. People were putting up houses where people didn’t want to live. But affordability is important. Later, the entrepreneurial developers come out here because there was a market. Retail centers soon follow because of demand. Housing boom tends lead to population serving businesses coming into the area. Industrial developers follow after which creates blue collar jobs. The Inland area was in Stage 3 where we saw increasing upscale houses being built. The Inland Empire saw much younger people move into the area. This influx of young talent with higher education opens up the area for much different jobs and services. The Inland Empire economy will be back on John’s three stage development once we get through this cycle.
John says San Fernando and Orange County went through this same three stage growth cycle. Orange County went through stage three in the 70s. John tells the story of South Coast Plaza. Orange County is actually worried because it’s losing its young and educated workers to the Inland Empire.
In Riverside, all industries are having a difficult time. Residential construction brought in a large about of jobs. Warehousing and distribution have also been main drivers for jobs. Now that these have both slowed, unemployment has boomed.
Bruce asks John if the Feds will crank up infrastructure projects. John says that would be the way to help the economy. The influx of cash to consumers by the government in May didn’t work because they paid off debt or went to Walmart.
Bruce asks John about the difference in median incomes from the Orange County and Riverside. John says they are very different. However, if you take the median income and then subtract the cost of housing, it’s about dead even. As the economy approves, we’ll continue to pull more and more people from Orange County for this reason.
More on John Husing and his research at johnhusing.com
In August 2006, Dr. John Husing was listed by the L.A. Times Magazine as one of the 100 most powerful people shaping life in Southern California. He is a leading authority on the impact of the goods movement industry on the region, and in particular its role as a provider of upward economic mobility to blue collar workers. He has just completed major studies on the impact of the proposed Clean Truck Program at ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach and has recommended some changes in strategy.
In addition, Dr. Husing has spent decades studying the city & county economies of Southern California with a specialty on the Inland Empire. This research began when he began working on his doctoral thesis at Claremont Graduate University in 1964. For the past 43 years, Dr. Husing has conducted extensive research plus interviews with executives and entrepreneurs to understand the forces shaping Southern California. He has a deep understanding of our political process, having managed over 100 partisan and non-partisan campaigns. Today, he uses his extensive knowledge of the region and his political experience to explain the economy to business leaders and policy makers throughout the Southland.
Privately, John Husing enjoys life as an adventurer, taking treks into uncharted territories as well as traveling to 52 different countries. In recent years, he has twice entered the unexplored jungles of NW New Guinea to make first contact with previously undiscovered stone-aged tribes. His last trip was trekking over the Himalayas from Nepal into Tibet. Closer to home, Dr. Husing is an amateur genealogist with his American roots traced back 12 generations to Robert Fuller and his family on the Mayflower.
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Bruce Norris mentions that The Norris Group is now ready to start purchasing properties with the intent to hold them as rentals. Bruce says we’re buying at 28% of what the lender was owed.
John takes Moreno Valley as an example of what happened in the last cycle with rentals. The injection of rentals in areas that were traditionally owner occupied caused problems. Rentals are generally not as well cared for as owner occupied properties in the area. Home values go down because of this. In areas dominated by rentals, calls for police soar. Soon turnover increases as renters look for the best deals and there’s soon a rent war. Side effects of too many rentals can cause many issues. John says Moreno Valley was destroyed by HUD in the last cycle because they didn’t even think about the effects to the communities.
In the stabilization act, money has been given to cities to help stop this issue. Cities can negotiate prices in bulk and then double escrow the homes at certain prices over to construction firms to bring them back to nice homes. They then sell these homes to qualified first time home buyers. San Bernardino did this in the last cycle. 90% of the people who purchased those homes were still in 10 years later.
Bruce mentions that homeownership levels got too high and that more rentals will be a natural conclusion. John thinks it’s more of a pricing question. If prices got down to a level that’s affordable, people will buy. He says California has never built enough homes for its population.
John says that demand for homes is accelerating greatly. Unfortunately, the supply of foreclosures is still coming in great quantity which continues to bring down prices. John feels the only real solution is to get the principal down.
Bruce says Riverside is one of the possible hot spots once this all turns around. John says the Inland region has more construction dirt available then other counties. Over the next 25 years, Southern California will add 6 million people. Orange County and San Diego are built out or zoned out of being able to build. LA is in a similar situation. Once we get through this downturn, the Inland region has tremendous growth opportunity.
Bruce says that people would rather be in California then many other states. For the next couple of years, people from other states will start to recognize the opportunity to move to California and be making the same payment or less and be able to live in a better climate. Bruce thinks we’ll see massive in migration. John says he too thinks people will be looking at California as a place to retire.
Bruce talks about how he got to Riverside and the massive growth that’s taken place. John explains the three stage growth process. By the late 70s, Riverside developers started developing in the area. People were putting up houses where people didn’t want to live. But affordability is important. Later, the entrepreneurial developers come out here because there was a market. Retail centers soon follow because of demand. Housing boom tends lead to population serving businesses coming into the area. Industrial developers follow after which creates blue collar jobs. The Inland area was in Stage 3 where we saw increasing upscale houses being built. The Inland Empire saw much younger people move into the area. This influx of young talent with higher education opens up the area for much different jobs and services. The Inland Empire economy will be back on John’s three stage development once we get through this cycle.
John says San Fernando and Orange County went through this same three stage growth cycle. Orange County went through stage three in the 70s. John tells the story of South Coast Plaza. Orange County is actually worried because it’s losing its young and educated workers to the Inland Empire.
In Riverside, all industries are having a difficult time. Residential construction brought in a large about of jobs. Warehousing and distribution have also been main drivers for jobs. Now that these have both slowed, unemployment has boomed.
Bruce asks John if the Feds will crank up infrastructure projects. John says that would be the way to help the economy. The influx of cash to consumers by the government in May didn’t work because they paid off debt or went to Walmart.
Bruce asks John about the difference in median incomes from the Orange County and Riverside. John says they are very different. However, if you take the median income and then subtract the cost of housing, it’s about dead even. As the economy approves, we’ll continue to pull more and more people from Orange County for this reason.
More on John Husing and his research at johnhusing.com
In August 2006, Dr. John Husing was listed by the L.A. Times Magazine as one of the 100 most powerful people shaping life in Southern California. He is a leading authority on the impact of the goods movement industry on the region, and in particular its role as a provider of upward economic mobility to blue collar workers. He has just completed major studies on the impact of the proposed Clean Truck Program at ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach and has recommended some changes in strategy.
In addition, Dr. Husing has spent decades studying the city & county economies of Southern California with a specialty on the Inland Empire. This research began when he began working on his doctoral thesis at Claremont Graduate University in 1964. For the past 43 years, Dr. Husing has conducted extensive research plus interviews with executives and entrepreneurs to understand the forces shaping Southern California. He has a deep understanding of our political process, having managed over 100 partisan and non-partisan campaigns. Today, he uses his extensive knowledge of the region and his political experience to explain the economy to business leaders and policy makers throughout the Southland.
Privately, John Husing enjoys life as an adventurer, taking treks into uncharted territories as well as traveling to 52 different countries. In recent years, he has twice entered the unexplored jungles of NW New Guinea to make first contact with previously undiscovered stone-aged tribes. His last trip was trekking over the Himalayas from Nepal into Tibet. Closer to home, Dr. Husing is an amateur genealogist with his American roots traced back 12 generations to Robert Fuller and his family on the Mayflower.
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Friday, July 11, 2008
Philip Tirone of The Mortgage Equity Group #76
Bruce Norris is joined this week by president of 7 Steps to a 720 Credit Score, The Mortgage Equity Group, and panelist for I Survived Real Estate 2008, Philip X. Tirone. Bruce and Philip discuss his term mortgage lifestyle dilemma, the consumer and disposable income, people trying to get out of loans, the percentage of people now able to get financing, the speed of the credit dry up, issues funding even with a large down payment, risk level exaggerations, the current state of home equity lines of credit, credit cards becoming the next line of liquidity, credit limits being reduced if a consumer’s credit score is not good, credit card companies looking into a consumer’s industry where they work, certain industries falling out of favor with credit issues, the Universal Default Clause and the interest rate associated with this clause, the different types of lenders, wholesale brokers, how the collateralized debt was put together, the main liquidity in the market, the price difference between a fixed and unfixed home, how lenders feel about unfixed homes, the national and local bills being discussed to help, who people are blaming for this mess, non-owner occupied financing, solutions being aimed at the wrong crowd, how lenders are dealing consumers looking to walk away even though they are current, ISurvived2008.com
Philip's commitment to educating homebuyers prompted the “7 Steps Licensing Program,” which allows mortgage brokers nationwide to become licensed in the 7 Steps and in turn help improve their clients' credit scores. He is also developing the 7 Steps Foundation, a charitable foundation that will allocate funds to help low-income and underserved Americans increase their credit scores and buy homes.
Philip has been featured in articles on credit and mortgage trends in the Los Angeles Times, New York Times.com, Wall Street Journal, Newsday, Woman's World Magazine, San Jose Mercury News, Bottom Line Magazine, Bankrate.com, and several others.
Philip created the Complete Financial Navigator™, a tool to analyze his borrowers' needs and financial picture, thereby helping borrowers overcome barriers to achieving their real estate goals. As a frequent guest lecturer at the
Philip was named
Friday, May 30, 2008
Philip Tirone of The Mortgage Equity Group #70
Bruce Norris is joined once again by president of 7 Steps to a 720 Credit Score and The Mortgage Equity Group, Philip X. Tirone. Bruce and Philip discuss how detrimental it is to be surrounded by comps dominated by short sales or foreclosures, how using recent sales in the current market hurts prices, FHA loan seasoning and the difficulty investors face selling in the current California market, how each half percent of interest rate gives the loan more borrowing power, the Case Shiller and how the index does not reflect foreclosure numbers, how foreclosures won’t always dictate price, as is inventory versus clean inventory, appraisal rules coming up in January 2009, how banks will want to use their own valuation system which could cause more problems, automated valuation systems, how being labeled a declining state changes conventional financing, new labeling categories in hard hit areas that require 40% down, the attitudes lenders have towards inventory in rough shape, appraisal reviews becoming the norm, the time change for transactions, income levels of potential clients, examples of lenders undervaluing properties and dictating price lower than current offers, proposed fixes in the mortgage mess and if any will help, more questions coming in about what will happen if people walk away from their property, the time frame it takes to become a buyer again after a foreclosure, illegal aliens and home ownership, how lenders are being more careful in their due diligence on anyone trying to obtain a loan, new Fannie Mae limitations on investor loans, and 7stepsto720.com.
Philip’s commitment to educating homebuyers prompted the “7 Steps Licensing Program,” which allows mortgage brokers nationwide to become licensed in the 7 Steps and in turn help improve their clients’ credit scores. He is also developing the 7 Steps Foundation, a charitable foundation that will allocate funds to help low-income and underserved Americans increase their credit scores and buy homes.
Philip has been featured in articles on credit and mortgage trends in the Los Angeles Times, New York Times.com, Wall Street Journal, Newsday, Woman’s World Magazine, San Jose Mercury News, Bottom Line Magazine, Bankrate.com, and several others.
Philip created the Complete Financial Navigator™, a tool to analyze his borrowers’ needs and financial picture, thereby helping borrowers overcome barriers to achieving their real estate goals. As a frequent guest lecturer at the University of California Los Angeles, Philip has authored and delivered numerous speeches regarding the “Mortgage Lifestyle Dilemma,” a phrase he coined to describe an emotional buying decision that results in overextension and a life that revolves around high mortgage payments. By analyzing industry-specific buying trends, he has devised a series of questions to help borrowers avoid this dilemma.
Philip was named Arizona State University’s Man of the Year upon graduating with a real estate degree in 1994. Since then, he has continued to receive acclaim, most recently in the New York Times best-seller, Secrets of the Young & Successful.
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Friday, May 23, 2008
Philip Tirone of The Mortgage Equity Group #69
Bruce Norris is joined this week by president of 7 Steps to a 720 Credit Score and The Mortgage Equity Group, Philip Tirone. Bruce and Philip discuss when Philip first got in the lending business, what was required of borrowers in the late 90s, what types of loans were available, how 2004-2006 changed, the consumer and how they became investors, banks and their willingness to renegotiate, how debt was sold and collateralized, how subprime has spilled over to prime borrowers, how drastically the lending business changes in such a short time in today’s market, how the bankers and economists seem to be out of touch with the local market, how the market has changed for investors, the pillars of financing, how important provable income is to obtain loans, what ratio of income to loan amount is now acceptable, qualifying people on net income, how credit scores have become so important, how banks now want to see money in the bank, the percentage of people now being able to qualify for loans, stated income loans in the current market, portfolio loans in the current market, how different consumers are treated differently even with FHA, how popular FHA has become, types of inventory or projects lenders shy away from, condos and rules that might make it difficult to get a loan, the products banks are trying to push, the reality of price declines, the losses not finished for lenders, 7stepsto720.com.
An expert in residential home financing, Philip X. Tirone is a powerhouse mortgage broker who contributes heavily to his firm’s billions of dollars in loan sales. Philip has a unique background in difficult-to-obtain loans, having spent years working with borrowers with subprime credit scores. Philip is masterful in finding loans for borrowers with bad credit, no credit, bankruptcy, and no stated income, but his specialty is in helping increase his clients’ credit scores so they qualify for the optimal loan programs that minimize their interest payments. In addition to authoring 7 Steps To a 720 Credit Score™, Philip’s workbook, Applying the 7 Steps to a 720 Credit Score, is one of Nightingale-Conant’s top sellers.
Philip’s commitment to educating homebuyers prompted the “7 Steps Licensing Program,” which allows mortgage brokers nationwide to become licensed in the 7 Steps and in turn help improve their clients’ credit scores. He is also developing the 7 Steps Foundation, a charitable foundation that will allocate funds to help low-income and underserved Americans increase their credit scores and buy homes.
Philip has been featured in articles on credit and mortgage trends in the Los Angeles Times, New York Times.com, Wall Street Journal, Newsday, Woman’s World Magazine, San Jose Mercury News, Bottom Line Magazine, Bankrate.com, and several others.
Philip created the Complete Financial Navigator™, a tool to analyze his borrowers’ needs and financial picture, thereby helping borrowers overcome barriers to achieving their real estate goals. As a frequent guest lecturer at the University of California Los Angeles, Philip has authored and delivered numerous speeches regarding the “Mortgage Lifestyle Dilemma,” a phrase he coined to describe an emotional buying decision that results in overextension and a life that revolves around high mortgage payments. By analyzing industry-specific buying trends, he has devised a series of questions to help borrowers avoid this dilemma.
Philip was named Arizona State University’s Man of the Year upon graduating with a real estate degree in 1994. Since then, he has continued to receive acclaim, most recently in the New York Times best-seller, Secrets of the Young & Successful.
Listen Now
An expert in residential home financing, Philip X. Tirone is a powerhouse mortgage broker who contributes heavily to his firm’s billions of dollars in loan sales. Philip has a unique background in difficult-to-obtain loans, having spent years working with borrowers with subprime credit scores. Philip is masterful in finding loans for borrowers with bad credit, no credit, bankruptcy, and no stated income, but his specialty is in helping increase his clients’ credit scores so they qualify for the optimal loan programs that minimize their interest payments. In addition to authoring 7 Steps To a 720 Credit Score™, Philip’s workbook, Applying the 7 Steps to a 720 Credit Score, is one of Nightingale-Conant’s top sellers.
Philip’s commitment to educating homebuyers prompted the “7 Steps Licensing Program,” which allows mortgage brokers nationwide to become licensed in the 7 Steps and in turn help improve their clients’ credit scores. He is also developing the 7 Steps Foundation, a charitable foundation that will allocate funds to help low-income and underserved Americans increase their credit scores and buy homes.
Philip has been featured in articles on credit and mortgage trends in the Los Angeles Times, New York Times.com, Wall Street Journal, Newsday, Woman’s World Magazine, San Jose Mercury News, Bottom Line Magazine, Bankrate.com, and several others.
Philip created the Complete Financial Navigator™, a tool to analyze his borrowers’ needs and financial picture, thereby helping borrowers overcome barriers to achieving their real estate goals. As a frequent guest lecturer at the University of California Los Angeles, Philip has authored and delivered numerous speeches regarding the “Mortgage Lifestyle Dilemma,” a phrase he coined to describe an emotional buying decision that results in overextension and a life that revolves around high mortgage payments. By analyzing industry-specific buying trends, he has devised a series of questions to help borrowers avoid this dilemma.
Philip was named Arizona State University’s Man of the Year upon graduating with a real estate degree in 1994. Since then, he has continued to receive acclaim, most recently in the New York Times best-seller, Secrets of the Young & Successful.
Listen Now
Friday, May 2, 2008
Pete Pannes of PMI Mortgage Insurance #66
Bruce Norris is joined this week by Senior Vice President, Field Sales and National Accounts of PMI Mortgage Insurance Co., Pete Pannes. Bruce and Pete discuss the basic business of PMI, when a borrower in a transaction pays for PMI, the range in cost, when PMI is required on a loan, if sellers can pay for the cost of PMI, competitors in mortgage insurance, what would happen if a mortgage insurer went out of business and its effect on the lenders, current stresses on mortgage insurers, how the industry is structured to handle issues in the market, how insurance changes the amount a consumer can borrow, if PMI is only for first trust deeds, if PMI has gotten more popular in recent years, if property value increases reduce insurance costs, at what point PMI is cancelled, what happens if prices go backwards, can PMI be reinstated if loan to value shifts, what price range of loans PMI covers, variances in PMI by state, if PMI can be used for purchases and refinances, how the market got away from paying PMI with 80% first and 20% second, if more traditional underwriting is taking place and if it includes PMI, how PMI was ignored because of run up of appreciation in previous years, reemergence of FHA and how it compares to PMI, how the consumer benefits from PMI, how lenders benefit from PMI, if PMI makes loan more liquid on Wall Street, how PMI assists bank if foreclosure takes place, what is covered in the policy and for how much, the borrower in foreclosure and recourse against borrowers in default, how do consumers prove they are in a 20% equity position, if late payments or rapid market declines can cause the bank to change its policies, do mortgage seconds or home equity line of credit change the PMI situation going forward, will PMI be required for longer amounts of time, pmigroup.com.
Pete Pannes is Senior Vice President, Field Sales and National Accounts, for PMI Mortgage Insurance Co., responsible for ensuring operational excellence with PMI customers nationwide.
Pannes has more than 18 years combined experience in the mortgage and mortgage insurance industry. He joined PMI in 1990 as an Account Representative and was promoted to Account Executive in 1992. He was a key part of the PMI management team that in 1994 formed CMG Mortgage Insurance Company (CMG MI), PMI's joint venture with CUNA Mutual serving the growing credit union market. Pannes held several positions at CMG MI from 1994 to 2001, when he joined CUNA Mutual as Senior Vice President and General Manager of CMG MI. In 2004 he rejoined PMI as Vice President of National Sales-Division Manager, responsible for the management of all field sales and select national accounts for the Eastern U.S.
Pannes holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration from Arizona State University.
Friday, April 25, 2008
Ben Gay III #65
Bruce Norris is joined by one of the Nation’s best salesmen and sales trainers, Ben Gay III. Bruce and Ben discuss how Ben’s life changed when he answered an ad from Bill Dempsey, how Ben got his start in the sale business, working for one of the first multi-level companies called Holiday Magic, rubbing shoulders with some of America’s best known salesmen including J. Douglas Edwards, Zig Ziglar, Earl Nightingale, Napoleon Hill, and Fred Herman, the concept of no graduation day for a professional sales person, Closers 2 and the sales infiltrator concept, the normal sales setup and how the sales infiltrator changes the dynamics, thinking on the behalf of the client and how that wins loyal customers, bfg3.com.
Ben Gay III has been called a living legend in the sales world. Now in his 42nd year of professional selling, he has been the #1 salesperson in every organization in which he has worked.
At age 27 he was president of what was then the world’s largest direct sales company, having been personally trained by fellow sales legends J. Douglas Edwards, Dr. Napoleon Hill, Earl Nightingale, and other sales giants.
One of the most famous, popular and powerful sales trainers in the world, Ben now writes/publishes/produces “The Closers” series of books/audios/videos/newsletters/teletrainings/and live seminars . . . a series that is considered to be “The Foundation of Professional Selling.”
Ben was the founder and is the current Executive Director of The National Association of Professional Salespeople! Ben and his lovely wife Gigi live near Lake Tahoe in the little town of Placerville, California
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